Dispel Magic (in General)

Thraklight Resonance December 30 2004 6:25 PM EST

SNK3R and I have Dispel Magic trained at different levels for those who would like to farm us and test the spell's impact upon various enchantments. I do very much like the line "3's Ablative Shield fizzles under Dispel Magic," the obvious impact of the spell in a number of my fights. You may also wish to see if it reduces enhancements created by several of the tattoos.

AdminJonathan December 30 2004 6:48 PM EST

tattoo effects are not enchantments.

SNK3R December 30 2004 7:19 PM EST

That's correct.

Tattoo effects (FB, CoC, MM) are only DD which do not follow under DM's guidelines.

Sutekh and I have messed around with DM for a few minutes to figure out the basics, and it seems like DM weakens any enchantment by level and not effect. Base DM (when you first learn it) gives you an effect of 620.

Sutekh December 31 2004 1:25 AM EST

Dispel Magic yield is around 2/3rds by the looks of it. That means:

- If you have a Dispel Magic of level N, then the "effect" is level 2N/3.
- The "effect" of the Dispel Magic nullifies that level of enchantment for all enemy enchantments (except enemy DM), offensive and defensive.
- Lowering the opponents level on enchantments thereby lowers the effect of those enchants.

As an example:

If I have a Dispel Magic of level 3000, then it will cast at around 2000. If my opponents has an Ethereal Chains of 2400, my Dispel Magic will cancel his EC by 2000, leaving him with an EC level of 400.

SNK, correct me if I am wrong.

Sutekh's professional opinion? Dispel Magic has now become at least as essential (or moreso) than AMF. With a single enchantment, you can nullify ALL enemy enchantments by about 2/3rds of what you have yours trained at (even though you only have to train it in one spot -- though you could still stack it). Thing about how important Enchanters are in CB, and then realize how important Dispel Magic could be. Ooooooohhhh. Ahhhhhhhhhhh. Now you get it.

SNK3R December 31 2004 1:58 AM EST

Awesome explanation, Sutekh. That seems to be the gist of everything. However, I have to correct one thing:

Dispel Magic yield is around 2/3rds by the looks of it. That means:

- If you have a Dispel Magic of level N, then the "effect" is level 2N/3.

Further training of my DM has proven that the equation you gave is a little off. But, hey, since I'm obsessive compulsive and a perfectionist *cough* Jon! *cough*, I'll help you out by clarifying it. :)

My current stat on my Dispel Magic is the following:

Dispel Magic: 3,328 (2,662)

This comes up with the equation X = 4N/5; N being the level, X being the effect.

Todd December 31 2004 7:30 AM EST

I hereby predict the changelog to be the forum with the most posts when CB is launched.

Todd December 31 2004 7:41 AM EST

This is interesting: Kraal does not have DM, yet my AMF fizzles under Dispel Magic when I attack him. I now have DM, so is there a backfire effect? The only Enchantment that Kraal has is AS.

Todd December 31 2004 7:42 AM EST

Sorry for all the posts...

No, something odd is happening. My haste and GS are not affected by any Dispel Magic. Just my AMF.


AdminJonathan December 31 2004 8:54 AM EST

DM affects all enchantments on the minions it's cast on.

so if you cast DM on someone, it will reduce your AMF or EC as well as anything he casts on himself.

Todd December 31 2004 9:13 AM EST

Ah! gotcha. that's cool, and weird, all at the same time :)

Todd December 31 2004 9:15 AM EST

Erm.. ok, not cool. I'm missing something, or I do not understand your explanation Jon.

My DM is on a minion who also casts GS. My GS in uneffected. The other enchanter I own casts AMF and Haste. Only the AMF is affected.

AdminJonathan December 31 2004 9:20 AM EST

<Jonathan> who is [your] DM cast on?
<Jonathan> your opponent
<Jonathan> who is amf cast on?
<Jonathan> your opponent
<Jonathan> who is haste cast on?
<Jonathan> NOT your opponent
<Jonathan> hence, [your] DM affects your amf but not your haste

Todd December 31 2004 9:30 AM EST

Ok, I gotcha. Surely, the confusion isn't surprising? I hope people read this post when it CB2 goes into release.


Since DM casts on all your opponent's minions, it also reduces any of your OWN offensive enchantments (AMF and EC) by the same amount.

Sutekh December 31 2004 10:50 AM EST

Thanks for the factor clarification, SNK3R.

And I am still mighty confused, but will read this all again after a couple of cups of coffee.

Sutekh December 31 2004 11:18 AM EST

OK, I am going to try to explain this, mainly for my own confusion. *smile*

Think of an enchantment as a little cloud of pixie dust floating around the head of the minion the enchantment is cast on. So, if I cast AMF (and OFFENSIVE enchantment), there will be little clouds of AMF dust floating about the heads of the enemy (mage) minions. If I cast AS (a DEFENSIVE enchantment), there will be little clouds of AS dust floating about the heads of all of MY OWN guys.

Now, enter Dispel Magic. Dispel Magic is an OFFENSIVE enchantment, so I cast it on the opposing minions. The DM dust mingles with the AMF dust already there, and weakens that dust. So, even though _I_ am the one that put the AMF dust there in the first place, the Dispel Magic that I also cast is going to weaken it.

Alternate ways to phrase what Dispel Magic does:

- From the viewpoint of the team casting the DM: Dispel Magic reduces the effects of all opposing DEFENSIVE enchantments, and also reduces the effect of any of my own OFFENSIVE enchantments. This Dispel Magic has no effect on my team's own defensive enchantments.
- From the viewpoint of the team having DM cast UPON them: Dispel Magic reduces the effects of the team's defensive enchantments, and also reduces the effects of the other offensive enchantments cast from the other team.

Finally, let's talk strategies. Dispel Magic always has a good side, as it reduces the opposing team's defensive enchantments. One defensive enchantment that is going to get laid to waste by Dispel Magic is Protection. We all liked Protection's set-it-and-forget-it nature. Jack it up to 70K or so, and you are done. Well, now anyone walking around with a level 100K DM is going to decimate that Protection into oblivion.

VA and GA are also going to be hard to keep up against Dispel Magic. Before, one could just set VA around the highest blow, and set GA around the blows received. Now folks will have to remember they are going to get clocked by DM too.

People trying multiple tanks with GS and Haste will also feel the hurt.

But careful all you Dispel Magic fans! If you cast AMF and a large DM, your AMF is going to be useless. That is going to seriously hurt. I was amazed at the yield of DM when SNK3R first tried it, but now I see the offset. You decimate your own offensive enchantments along with the enemy's defensive ones.

I predict a popular tactic will be to train a small DM to take care of opponent Protection, VA and GA. Anyone who goes higher than that with DM will have to be a "quick kill" team, because otherwise they will get owned by mage teams (since AMF will be moot). Or, maybe some folks will simply forego Dispel Magic. Time will tell.

I could ramble all day. In fact, it appears that I already have. Please correct me if I have said anything incorrectly here.

Todd December 31 2004 1:36 PM EST

Yes, Sutekh, I picture that as a little cloud of magic around someone's head.. my DM negates some of that.. nice image, thanks :)

I have a feeling this thread will be linked several times in the future :P

Sutekh December 31 2004 4:23 PM EST

Please no! I was rambling like a dolt! *smile* What am I, Tinkerbell? *laugh*

Thraklight Resonance December 31 2004 4:36 PM EST

If you insist. :-)

Fishead January 2 2005 8:24 PM EST

By the description, this means that if I cast DM on my opponent, and he casts EC on me, his casting of EC is not effected?

AdminJonathan January 2 2005 8:28 PM EST


[CB1]moniker January 2 2005 8:47 PM EST

Dispel Magic is the FBM killer. EEMM with AS, AS, MM/GA, FB will be useless, as an opponents DM will crush your AS to death.

Will it also diminish GA? I'm trying to thread this one through - I think it doesn't, but I'm still a bit fuzzy in my brain parts.

[SoV] Shiv [/me Forge Stuff :D] January 2 2005 8:55 PM EST

does DM affect skills?

Becoming January 2 2005 8:58 PM EST

It also diminishes GA, which means that it can kill it outright as well.

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] January 2 2005 9:19 PM EST

Those strats you mention moniker will not be dead, not by a long shot. What DM means is that there's one strat that one ups them, so what? That leaves you weak against mages with HP or tanks or any other unlimited variations. It's like saying the single tank strat is dead after you beat it with a EEEM setup with all EC and a FB. What works on one thing well will get trounced by others.
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