Tatoos: Potential Big Problem (in General)
Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but the power of the tattoo doesn't seem to be at all relative to the power of the minion or character equiping it, and I see this as a potentialy huge problem. This is why:
This game is obviously designed to just keep going for years, and there are always going to be people he keep their tattoo on the same character that they regularly use the whole time in those years. This will obviously make for a very powerful tattoo. Now, if the person quits and sells their stuff or starts a new character or something along those lines, there will be a super low character that can beat up some pretty huge characters. Theoreticly a 1 pr character could take on a regularly equiped 500k pr character, make for massive negative exp and scores and the sort, since it'll be the tattoo doing all the work while the minion just dies and has nothing to do with how powerful the tattoo is. I have a couple ideas that could help solve the future problem.
1) Levels only apply the character that earned them. Kinda of like the familiar knowing and working with the character sorta thing. (Would also solved the problem of asking if people want to borrow their tatoo in chat every other line also)
2) Make the level equipable relative the PR. Like a 200k pr character can only equip no higher than a 100k lvl tattoo or some such thing, (probably wouldn't be a good idea to have it some sort of linear relativity)
3) Make tattoo power relative to the stats of the minion that equips it.
/me hopes he didn't just miss something big here that nulls the whole statement.
January 3 2005 3:30 AM EST
Which will probably add to this problem is the fact that in effect the tattoo is a character with which you can multi by lending them out. This kind of usage could be cut back on by linking the level of the tattoo with the networth, so it will be expensive to do so.
Just my two cents. Feel free to sink my argument... :)
January 3 2005 3:36 AM EST
I can understand where you're coming from, I quite like the idea of number 1, but it's just like someone with a huge Elven Long Bow or Lochaber Axe in CB1. There was always the potential that someone could do what you're saying with superior weaponry AC and displacement boots, but that's because they put the work in, and the same goes for the tattoo.
I do agree with your first suggestion though, which would, in turn, imply 2 & 3.
In closing, I have said nothing of any use to anyone
January 3 2005 4:01 AM EST
Why not just make it...logical.
Tattoos let you keep all item slots, and are non-removeable/changeable. A tattoo doesn't just come off.
January 3 2005 4:05 AM EST
Hmm, that would work for the ones that just give a stats boost, but for the tattoos that create familiars i would prefer the suggestions in the earlier posts
January 3 2005 4:10 AM EST
Then they really shouldn't even be called tattoos. Unless you're suggesting we're cutting off the skin the tattoo is on and sewing it onto the other person ^_^
January 3 2005 4:10 AM EST
1. Um, may as well just allow 5 minions at this point. Barely any difference.
2. This has been suggested for equipment and was rejected. I see no reason to do it with tattoos.
3. This is, in a sense, true of most tattoos. With the exception of ToJ and LToJ, tattoos don't gain any HP with levels. Thus, it is not possible to use AS or AMF to prevent tattoos from being killed on the first round by a big fireball if your level is low relative to the tattoo. I admit this won't completely save you from a ToF or LToF (i.e. they can get in one hit on the first round), but I suppose you could just use a CoBF on at least one minion and you're safe from that, too. And if not, it's still not going to completely annihilate you if you have FB.
I agree that they need some serious nerfing, a 3billion NW Elbow on a 1pr character, if that beat a 100k pr character then the owner of that character can do nothing but accept that they were vulnerable to that. The first thing I do when I make my strategies is have some way of protecting against smaller characters with big weapons/certain strats, if you don't protect against it, you can't complain that you lost. Problem is, if a 1pr character gets a 500k pr minion to help it out and it's still at 1 pr, then that's overpowered. As it stands there is only one way to protect against this, the familiar can be twice your PR and still get you negative money and EXP. Only way is to outrun every tattoo's level with your own character, that wont be possible for everyone and in 6 months it'll be impossible for new people.
Tattoos are potentially going to be overpowered and arguably are already overpowered.
They'll be nerfed though, remember the CoBF being introduced? That's a great example of it, they are introduced to the game, and faults in them are seen and fixed. That's the way it works. There's either a nerf on it's way or a weakness in the tattoos we haven't found yet.
As MrChuckles said. But you shouldn't be focusing on just tattoo's. This problem arises when any large existing item is transfered to a new character. Be it a tattoo that accumulated 3 years worth or xp, or a weapon that's had 3 Million NW forged into it.
Try fighting someone with a massive Lesser Tattoo of Fire (Flame?) and see how far you get...
Any different than fighting a new character with a x26 Elbow (for example).
January 3 2005 6:15 AM EST
I would be happy with the tattoos if it were made impossible to swap between characters. I think that is the easiest way to make tattoos fair.
January 3 2005 6:18 AM EST
Before some people slide in to the "nerf Tats" argument, there is another bit more simple solution to the orginal post. Change the way the exp and minus $ formula works. Extreme case, just remove it.
The minus $ and exp formula was brought in when chars (such as spid) would remove all their equip, plummet in score, then equip it all back again and gain rewards.
To be honest with new setups is this still needed? The only one who would really benefit the most from this is the leader of the pack at the time, and I dont see why it cant be a perk for them :)
January 3 2005 6:20 AM EST
*nods* My point exactly. Tattoos don't really "need" a nerf, as long as they are kept as an item that can't be transferred. OR, if not, make it so transferring a tattoo off of your character drops it back to the level 20 default.
January 3 2005 6:21 AM EST
*that response was towards Kai*
January 3 2005 6:29 AM EST
Which is basically what the original post said, I'm a fan of the tattoos and feel they add even more to an already great game, but I don't want to see them become overpowered and subsequently nerfed beyond all recognition.
So if Jon could just make it so that with every character transfer the tattoo goes back to lvl 20, I think it would just even things out a bit and stop people benefitting from loaning them out.
In closing, the tattoos should still give an advantage, otherwise what is the point in them, but only if that person has spent their BA on it, and not someone elses
January 3 2005 6:36 AM EST
Now that that's settled. I challenge Kai to a duel so that when people refer to Kai they are referring to me by my shorthand name and not Kai!
January 3 2005 7:00 AM EST
I shall change my name to Kaioshin to settle this
"In closing, the tattoos should still give an advantage, otherwise what is the point in them, but only if that person has spent their BA on it, and not someone elses "
Why. This makes no sense.
Then weapons and armour shouldn't help anyone that has not spent the CBD on them to upgrade them...
This perceived problem will not go away unless transfer between characters is scrapped.
Which isn't too likely to happen! ;)
January 3 2005 7:17 AM EST
check the faqs, there is no negative xp in cb2.
you expect me to read the faqs?! well that's just unfair...
Thank You Mr Jonathan
January 3 2005 4:52 PM EST
"The minus $ and exp formula was brought in when chars (such as spid) would remove all their equip, plummet in score, then equip it all back again and gain rewards."
Actually, we did it to lower others score, not for any gain in xp/cash (of which I could not detect any).
Jon considered some kind of penalties for tattoo transfer but thought it might be more interesting this way. If he does ever implement penalties, I wouldn't mind seeing tattoos with familiars, if they are loaned out regularly, of developing a random chance of the familiar getting confused and attacking its owner. That would be fun to watch, but I have no idea how difficult it would be to code.
i would think there would be a % taken from that tattoo when unequipped similar to when you unlearn a skill/spell.. ie when you unlearn your tattoo, it fades 85%
January 3 2005 5:20 PM EST
I don't mean to be the bad guy here. But I honestly think none of us have high enough powers to really see how over powered tattoo's are if at all.
Of course they are over powered at lower levels, and I'm not one thats unknown to twinking. But My guess is by the time people get to 200K power or so, Tattoo's start getting less significant since the levels will grow slower.
January 3 2005 5:58 PM EST
I suppose we'll just have to wait and see
January 4 2005 1:12 AM EST
well, here is a good way IMO to solve the every growing crazy tattoo stuff:
1: Familiars are summoned in the sequence AFTER the minion.
2: It a minion with the tattoo dies, so does the Familiar.
this way 1pr char. cant be up some one with 10K pr from the start. Also this makes larger char. have just a small bonus with the familiars. And can change rules so that lets say only one of each type of tattoo can be equiped to a char.
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