Tattoo-Lender (in General)
January 4 2005 2:15 PM EST
Lets just rename this game Tattoo-Lender and finish it now.
The Jigo Tattoo is way over powered and ruining the game in my opinion.
Most of the time we find battles being fought with Jigo against Jigo with their owners long dead. Low PR Chars kicking the XXXX out of the bigger guys because of the on loan Jigo.
Jon please change them.
January 4 2005 2:21 PM EST
While we're doing the rename-game. Why not rename the "most powerful blow" ranking the "most powerful blow by a familiar" ranking... ;P
it's not that bad. It's only cause everyone is at a low pr. Once we get stronger it won't be that dramatic (not like an x25+ elbow). Tattoos are part of the game now though. You can't expect startegies that worked in cb1 to work in cb2 since there is essentially a new minion.
"Low PR Chars kicking the XXXX out of the bigger guys because of the 100K NW weapon they camped/forged/bought with USD"
January 4 2005 2:27 PM EST
Not to mention no one is really large yet, I don't think the curve of the Tattoo power will maintain the large gains once you get to a certain power level. Give the game time to work out as it has been less than a week try again in a month.
I'm sure the tattoos would've worked out just fine if everyone would've used them on their own teams, but there're always people who find a way to maximize they're performance. I doubt many could've foreseen tattoo-lending to reach this scale. In my opinion it's the lending that's causing the current problems, not the tattoos themselves.
I'm sure Jon has already ideas (or has already solved the problem), but at least at the moment it gets a bit frustrating to see teams way under 1/10th of your pr to beat the life out of your team. (Couldn't came up with a better sentence without breaking the pg-rules =)
I'm hoping the tattoos will get less significant as the game advances and let the minions themselves to do the fighting. But that's something only time will tell :p
What I hate about this is it's not that someone has enough USD to buy a big weapon, that's always been possible to beat with strategy, as it is, if you don't have a big ToJ, you can't win against someone with one.
When it becomes impossible to beat with strategy is when it becomes overpowered.
Although we haven't yet seen them at a higher level, we haven't had enough time to look into every way of countering them and we haven't seen that weapons aren't actually superior.
Give it time, Jon knows what he's doing, I agree that at the moment it's that you need one to be competetive but give it some time.
Jon did mention to me that he had thought about creating a penalty for transfers of tattoos but decided that it might be more interesting this way. It does seem that we have more than enough willing participants to level someone else's tattoo for the thrill of making a quick run at the top (not to mention a few who keep babbling about it in chat).
If Jon decides to implement penalties, I think it would be interesting to see heavily transferred tattoos given an increasing confusion percentage ... that the familiar could become confused or uncontrollable and attack its own master. The more transfers between other characters, the higher the percentage that the tattoo might attack the wrong target. Again, I have no how difficult this would be to code, but if it is possible, please make it retroactive to day one. I'm certain that I'm not the only one intrigued by the possibility of Avoid and Steve G being throttled by their own tattoos. :-)
January 4 2005 4:11 PM EST
Currently: Most expensive armor at $254,047 is A Tattoo of Jigorokano lvl 17,370 owned by Peter in Peru (MasterLancer).
However, if you don't know by now, it's owned by AvoidCXT.
Now, if loans and transfers of tattoos were forbidden from the beginning, it would make sense that the person whoever had the most PR would have the strongest tattoo (being that he used it in an equal amount of time in fights everyone else did). This logic is followed to the extent that the total amount of EXP gained on the tattoo is the total amount of EXP gained in battle divided by Jon's magic number. This means, the person who gains the most experience in battle would have the strongest tattoo. Wouldn't this be the leading person in PR?
Anyway, aside from bragging, I am currently in the number one spot for PR. So, if loans and transfers of tattoos were abolished from the beginning, I should have the highest tattoo. Currently, my tattoo is A Tattoo of Jigorokano lvl 9,920.
I will admit that I've loaned it out 3 times to see if I can out-do and over-run some of these tattoo loan-freaks, but I haven't gained many levels on it. Aside from that, if you notice, my tattoo is roughly one half the size of the highest right now. Avoid is right behind me in PR lacking roughly 3.5K PR. So, if loans and transfers were not applicable from the beginning, his should be roughly right behind mine. But it's _twice_ the size.
I don't know. Something just tells me something is odd when people with 11 PR (yes, just 11!) are dominating me easily with Avoid's tattoo.
January 4 2005 5:11 PM EST
And look, in just about an hour, the tattoo rose ~1,000 levels:
Most expensive armor at $267,800 is A Tattoo of Jigorokano lvl 18,270 owned by Verifex (Hot Pants).
January 4 2005 5:46 PM EST
Unbeatable using strategy? I think you are exaggerating slightly. I've already noticed ways of beating it. Of course, right now we are all so small, that a minion with 10k dex will wipe the floor with most people. So? Give it a month or two, and you won't even notice the difference.
P.S. Most of my fight list has ToJs. They aren't unbeatable.
January 4 2005 5:51 PM EST
Interesting though. I guess in wacky money time a low pr character can buy BA and get more money than he paid for it from it using a ToJ. Anyone care to try that out in a few minutes?
January 4 2005 10:35 PM EST
ok this is kinda ridiculous
Check out the User CR,,,he has one of the worst strats i have ever seen but he still has a Score / Power Rating: 5,974 / 775
why you ask
loan A Tattoo of Jigorokano ($64377) 8:29 PM EST
One of the things that i love about this game is the strategy behind it all
I see no strategy when someone with a strat as messed up as that can have a score almost 8 times his pr
guys you forget a good thing about the ToJ... this "minion" has no AC! It will only gain AC given by protection, which still can be lowered by DM, any other enchants on it with it. Now what does it give? I little UC tank with maybe monstrous stats for the character wearing it, but don't say it is unbeatable! And well, a 340mil NW weapon and big armor will wipe anything out like in CB1 that is of course... Now we just don't need that money to be powerfull, but need a lot of work!
That is kinda fair, imo.
January 5 2005 12:00 AM EST
salkter: a tattoo wearing enchanter would be sacrificing its one extra round of survival (at most) and 2% magic bonus... for a huge monk. Now isnt that a good deal.
lets wait it out a bit though, maybe as we climb higher in pr, things will become more regular.
what do you mean Ulord? And you still mispelt my name!
I would see something like the first round of the tattoo wearer to be used to spawn the familiar or something. That would make things maybe a little better for ToJ, but not if it's an E*x team...
January 5 2005 12:22 AM EST
salketer excuse my bad spelling:)
You may equip the ToJ on any minion, so equip it on an enchanter for example. the familiar will always go before the minion on which the tattoo is equipped i believe. So you will sacrifice body and cloak armor on an enchanter, which translates to loss of ac (aka maybe survive 1 less round but who really cares) and loss of coi bonus (2% to magic). In exchange, you get a huge monk. See, there is hardly any drawback in this aspect. Though the limit of one tattoo per char can make you think twice about which tattoo to use.
A little conversation from two days ago, names changed to protect the innocent, of course!
Point being: what is the complaint ... that Jon didn't create a scenario where the silly can't trade their own BA for short-term gain, when doing so is creating the supposedly "unbeatable" thing they will whine about long term?
=> Not Again Feel free to farm the *edit* out of The Sultan!
<Not Again> I do that already, lol
=> Not Again You know, should you have any spare BA.
=> Not Again He's done something since last night, as he can now beat me, though I am still mightier than he.
<Not Again> like handed his tattoo around to halfwits?
=> Not Again I had mine out last night. I just put it back on.
<Not Again> I assumed as much
=> Not Again I don't recall who had it, so I can't say anything about halfwits.
<Not Again> what is it at now?
=> Not Again 2670
<Not Again> lol
<Not Again> did you pay them anything?
=> Not Again Nope. I believe whoever it was wanted to, effectively, "rent" my ThingOmaJig, but I just loaned it out for an hour.
<Not Again> rofl
=> Not Again Mostly because the person was about to bend over for Dave, and his avarice was annoying me.
<Not Again> I can't believe so many people are falling for this, it's utterly mystifying
=> Not Again How many people, in the space of two minutes, fell for the "Jonathom" scam?
<Not Again> two
<Not Again> but had that been true, speed would have been of the essence, here nobody seems to have reflected on it at all
=> Not Again Does anyone ever _think_? I gave mine to someone who wanted to "try" one.
=> Not Again Well, present company excluded.
<Not Again> lol
<Not Again> I haven't bothered with any specific cost benefit analysis, but at a rough guess, the benefit to having a tattoo of reasonable power, on a small char over 160 BA, would be between 200-300 total xp for them, and permanent benefit to the tattoo owner
*Surely nods. You probably don't need Slim's charts and graphs, having it all in your head.
<Not Again> everyone is positively leaping at the chance to construct a scenario that they'll all complain vociferously about later on...
=> Not Again I'm going to share this. You don't mind, do you?
<Not Again> lol, if you like
=> Not Again You've just said it so well, and yet only the people smart enough to know what you said will have a chance to respond.
<Not Again> although I'm not whining about the ToJ, just about the people running around madly handing over precious BA to others
=> Not Again "Vociferously" should keep out the "huh?" crowd.
<Not Again> lol
<Not Again> aside from which...it's a *edit* tattoo
<Not Again> are there supposed to be skin flaps being exchanged here?
to respond a Ulord, It is a good deal of course... But you loose a meat shield with it being sumoned in front of an enchanter.
Well i still don't see any reasons to complain, everything *cough*always*cough* been fair.
January 5 2005 12:06 PM EST
I think the loaning and even power of the Tattoo's is fine, but what i'd like to see is that when the minion who casts the familiar dies, so does the familiar.
January 5 2005 12:39 PM EST
Currently renting a tattoo until I get supportership and get my own. Like it - A LOT. =). But the initial post might as well be renamed 'Its not fair'. I'm seeing a lot of whining about the tattoo being overpowered and giving an unfair advantage to lower pr chars. But, IMO, camping can give an unfair advantage - giving players far more money than others, letting them buy powerful weapons. Equipping a low pr char with say, an exec, is giving that low pr char an advantage over a char with a whip. I haven't yet worked out what the best counter strat to the tattoo is but I'm sure there are plenty of players who are thinking long and hard about this. I think they're the most interesting addition to the CB2.
BTW, I'm not against camping or equipping huge weapons on low pr chars! CB is a fighting game after all, and anything that helps you win is the point surely? If the tattoo is too powerful for you to go up against think of ways to fight it.
Another thing against the Jig (there are a few! ;P ) UC only hit's in melee. Jigs have no ranged attacks. Ever.
Just strap on a massive elbow! ;P
January 5 2005 1:05 PM EST
It would be nice if there was a new type of ammo that seeks out familiars.
January 5 2005 1:31 PM EST
Firstly, it would be nice to have a tank that can:
1. Hit the dang Jig
2. Do any damage to it
3. Get past its HP
Jigs gain stats much faster than even single tanks.
Perhaps a single tank with a Tattoo of Aug? In the long run, you wont be able to live without AC though..
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