CoBF also blocks incoming FB (in General)

Starseed^Lure January 5 2005 2:51 AM EST

Is this right? I've been attacking a char with a CoBF equipped and my fireball minions deal zero damage to the minion. It does say "protects against fireball", but I hadn't thought of incoming shots. Anyone else get freaked out by this?

Jeeze, time to revamp...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 5 2005 3:05 AM EST



I might have to switch back to MM...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 5 2005 3:11 AM EST

Thinking about this more, all I can say is wow....

I could have a 1 million level FB and my opponent equips a +0 CBF and I will do no damage to them what so ever...

FB looks quite unattractive now...

Starseed^Lure January 5 2005 3:14 AM EST

Mixed arms is now the course of action if you plan to use a little fireball. I'm switching one of my fireballs to Magic missile now. I think that'll fix it without hitting my strat too hard.

InebriatedArsonist January 5 2005 3:16 AM EST

With my minion wearing a CBF, the minion took no damage from teams with relatively small fireballs, but still took some damage from her own fireball, with is one of the larger fireballs in the game. I'm guessing that the level of the enchantment and the level of the fireball both have an effect on damage taken. I doubt Jon would put some sort of invincible cloak into the game.

Starseed^Lure January 5 2005 3:19 AM EST

Intriguing, IA. Thank you for that contribution. I see that more people will have to chip in before we can truly understand the nature of this beast.

Sedecim January 5 2005 3:21 AM EST

I rented the CoBF and tried it out against the biggest Fireball there is. So I fought King Chuckles a few times. I noticed two things.
1. I received no damage at all.
2. My archery is reduced to zero. Which I find a bit weird because there's nothing in the description of the CoBF that would explain this.

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] January 5 2005 3:54 AM EST

On a side note, this makes me wonder... would it be possible that now that it's impervious to fireball that maybe CoC damage is doubled or something? Anyone check this yet? It seems to me at least it could work like that.

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] January 5 2005 4:46 AM EST

"GentlemanLoser, 3:05 AM EST


I might have to switch back to MM...

GentlemanLoser, 3:11 AM EST
Thinking about this more, all I can say is wow....

I could have a 1 million level FB and my opponent equips a +0 CBF and I will do no damage to them what so ever...

FB looks quite unattractive now... "

Keep thinking about that ;)
If you have a 1mil FB then your opponents' ToJ wont do so great even if it is only taking a portion of the attack, any other tattoo will have it's HP crippled by DM and your ToJ (talking single mage strat here so this probably doesn't apply to many other strats) can be relied on for these wins, obviously ToJs wont be as good as minions later on but it'll still be competetive especially when backed up by that big a FB.
That's only one type of opponent. I considered MM after finding out about this too but FB is the choice spell especially when very few chars currently use CoBFs.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 5 2005 5:56 AM EST

I'm really hoping the level of the cloaks enchantment is compared to the level of FB attacking it... If so, it shouldn't be too hard to start damaging people wearing CBF's. Especially as they can't be forged.

CBF's in CB1 reduced all enchantments and skills on the wearer to zero. It looks like at the skill reduction carriers over.

After a little thought, it's not a bad as it seemed. Facing a Single CBF wearer, they will have no tattoo (as long as the BS bug is corrected) so no Jig to face. In a team, unless all are wearing CBF's (which might mean no skills and/or enchantments and no tattoos) my Jig will still do damage.

It's made the Jig even more important to me than before...

Jester5093 January 5 2005 12:17 PM EST

I'm using MM/CoC, and my CoC does about 1/10th the damage of my MM minion, if he even gets to hit. I'm quite unhappy with CoC, but, oh well. Maybe I'd be better off throwing decay in there, who knows.

QBsutekh137 January 5 2005 12:46 PM EST

sedecim, skill and enchents are gone to zero with CoBF...wasn't it that way in CB1? not sure why description does not tell this though.

yeah, may need to re-fit my fb too. can't always depend on other guy.

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] January 18 2005 2:51 AM EST

Sorry for bumping this up again but has anyone even gotten .00001% of damage through yet?

I'm really starting to hate these cloaks ;)
Looks to me like it does entirely protect you from fireball but I'm sure Jon said somewhere that it didn't entirely block it...

I know my FB does absolutely nothing to even the wimpiest characters with the wimpiest CoBFs.

QBJohnnywas January 18 2005 3:07 AM EST

I've been renting a CoBF regularly and the largest fireballs still do no damage. I want to own one!

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] January 18 2005 3:41 AM EST

/me doesn't mind the idea of 90% reduction to FB damage, that's fair enough but 100% is plain cruel ;)

[FireBreathing]Chicken January 18 2005 3:42 AM EST

My 63k score, ~50k Pr char is getting repeatedly whupped by a 12k Pr char owned by NotSuitableForChildren (Lord Nacho Cheese).

Easy exp/cash there.

There is also a very crazy strategy for this cloak.. which I will keep secret for now. :)

[Beo]AggroHippie January 18 2005 11:45 AM EST

ok, this wont be a problem for a little while, CoBF are rare, there are like 11 of them right now, so dont freak out and change your perfectly good FB, the solution here is to just not fight the minions that have a CoBF... although I think that this is a horrible thing to do...

QBJohnnywas January 18 2005 12:38 PM EST

on of these days we'll see a posting about somebody doing damage to one. I think it's only a matter of time. Cos, surely the cloak isn't invincible? Surely?

NotSuitablForChildren [Yeeeaahh.................] January 18 2005 1:21 PM EST

seems to be "invincable" I own one and yesterday I started fighting some of the higher single FB mages, and now I can beat King chuckles, at 13k pr. I have never received any damage from a fireball while wearing the cloak. Also the higher up single mages generally have ToJ's and all I have to do is survive the initial attack and their own fireball kills their familiar.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 18 2005 2:04 PM EST

Lets put this into perspective.

There are now 11 CBF s.

From the last post, a 13K PR character is able to beat a 70K PR character because of 1 item. This item is only +1, so hasn't had much money put into it. This item completly resists a level 40-50K FB.

I hope negative XP/Cash is not generated by these losses...

Todd January 18 2005 2:09 PM EST

I'm pretty sure Jon got rid of the losing experience and cash effect from losing to much lower players.

If it's a problem... Can I ask if you have tried CoC, or MM? I think Jon is wanting a reality check for FB. you get to fire in all 3 rounds of ranged. I'm not suggesting the cloak is fine, but there is more to it that just meets the eye.

QBJohnnywas January 18 2005 3:37 PM EST

I love the fact that it (currently) blocks fireballs but it doesn't stop magic missile, cone of cold, arrows, bolts, swords, axes, fists etc etc etc etc. If you do the wear the cloak, farm the higher pr fireball mage, rise in score thing you soon drop down when you're attacked by anybody else. I speak from experience =) Fun doing it though! (sorry Gentleman Loser by the way!)

I think that time will show that it will be vulnerable to fireball at some level. I'm interested to see what level that will be. At the moment it seems to be the most lusted after item in the game - quite a turnaround considering the attitude towards it in CB1 after the initial changes!

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] January 18 2005 5:18 PM EST

Todd, CoC? Single mage is a strat that has to hit hard and fast, finish things up in ranged or maybe the first round of melee. That's the way mine is at least, I don't see too many defensive options that would keep it alive for 10 rounds +.
MM, good option, FB's spread fire is too valuable though. Also I believe FB does more damage to a 1 minion opponent? That could also be very important if we're to stand any chance against tanks.

CoBFs are rare, yes, but I don't doubt that many people on my fightlist are capable of getting one if they think they need it.
Also when you can hit for 100k DI in ranged and still lose to something 1/3 of your PR it's not really a good sign about your strat doing well ;) I suppose it's good, I've always hated a high score and they keep mine nice and low but if CoBFs do entirely block FB then that's a bit unfair, as I said above, I have no problem with 90% damage reduction, I just don't like that you can use one cloak and entirely block one type of DD and also be doing great against tanks. Seems just a little unbalanced ;)

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] January 18 2005 6:34 PM EST

I am putting a big "DUH" sticker on this thread.

Besides, how many people have a CoBF?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 18 2005 7:53 PM EST


"If it's a problem... Can I ask if you have tried CoC, or MM? I think Jon is wanting a reality check for FB. you get to fire in all 3 rounds of ranged. I'm not suggesting the cloak is fine, but there is more to it that just meets the eye."

I've tried MM. It's just not as good as FB. CoC just sucks. DD spells also only hit once per round and have reduced damage in the majority of the ranged rounds (if they fire in ranged at all).

Personally I feel that a single item totally (this is speculation atm) negating a single type of attack to be unbalanced. Sure give it a FB only AMF quality dependant on it's level versus the FB level.

Maybe I'll feel better if a shield is made that totally stops all damage from Bows (or if that's too generic elbows.), or armour that stops all damage from ELS or execs.

Maybe that'll even things up.

As of now, now matter how high or powerful your FB mage is, anyone with any CBF will kill you (or draw if they don't do enough damage in 20 rounds). If CBFs do stop all damage irrespective of levels, can't people see that's wrong?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 19 2005 4:09 AM EST

Verifex, there are 11 in existence at the moment.

But rarity shouldn't be a balance to power.

<extreme example>
If an item existed that when equipped and you clicked '
Fight' everyone on your fight list died, would it make it ok or balanced if there only existed one of them?
</extreme example>

Heh. I had momentarily forgotten that CBF s also damage all melee attackers. And protect from friendly FB damage.

Is there anything this cloak can't do! ;P

Maybe the negation of enemy FB damage is because of the cloaks negation of friendly FB melee splash damage...

Max January 19 2005 4:11 AM EST

It can't block MM and it sucks up skills.

Undertow January 19 2005 5:20 AM EST

Yah, I think what Todd meant was have you tried to cloak vs MM and CoC, maybe since fire is fire and cold is cold CoC does double damage or something. Oi, elements.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 19 2005 6:02 AM EST

Max, looks like I missed out some sarcasm tags! ;)

Having CoC doing more damage versus a CBF user would be interesting, but it doesn't lessen the issue of the cloak neutering one attack.

Todd January 19 2005 6:26 AM EST

No, what I really meant was that this _might_ be by design. Jon appears to want CB2 to be a true game of rock, paper, scissors. No one strategy will always win over all others. Jon is painstakingly making sure CB2 has no Spid to dominate. (read: work your butt off for as long as you like, there will always be someone, some strat to beat you).

The cloak might just be the way to make sure a FB strat cannot dominate.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 19 2005 7:13 AM EST

Yeah, I can accept that and I think it's even necessary.

But not at the automatic 100% reduction it is now.

No other portion of CB has a total reduction with no heed to level comparisons, apart from this cloak. It's unbalanced and out of design to the rest of the game. Negation of FB without the need to spend any XP or money...

That is, if the cloak works like we fear it does... (Which is pure speculation atm)

If it doesn't, I wonder what the curve is like seeing as 50K FB s can't damage base cloaks.

QBJohnnywas January 19 2005 7:39 AM EST

Would it not be very very funny if the more money you put into the CoBF to raise it's power in melee, the more vulnerable it became to fireball.

Say at base it's completely invulnerable, but doing very little damage when attacked in melee. A +1 could be vulnerable to a fireball that is the equivalent of a 110k nw weapon. +2 lets in more damage ( fireball = 220k nw weapon) and so on and so on. All this worrying about it's 'invincibility' could be just putting a 'smile' on the face of the 'Gods'... =)

QBJohnnywas January 19 2005 7:42 AM EST

maybe not 110k nw weapon - but you know what I mean

I wouldn't put anything past Jon where things like this are concerned!

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 19 2005 7:55 AM EST

;) Now that is a nice twist!

But I still don't think it should be 100% at base. Even if it's 99% and each + lowers the reduction by 1%...
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