Dispel Magic question (in General)

QBJohnnywas January 5 2005 7:54 AM EST

If two characters with dispel magic of a similar size face off against each other, what happens? Do they cancel each other out?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 5 2005 7:59 AM EST


Asgarginia January 5 2005 8:37 AM EST

I was thinking aobut this, and the conclusion i drew, was dispel magic must affect every enemy enchantment, except dispel magic, so if 2 come face to face, then neither dispel magic is affected.

Nightmare [NewNightmares] January 5 2005 8:42 AM EST

Every enemy Enchant Offense. Their EC and AMF are unaffected, as they are cast upon you.

QBJohnnywas January 5 2005 9:11 AM EST

Has anyone tried out this scenario? I know that part of the balance of DM is that it affects your own offensive enchantments but is there no way to counter it aside from having huge enchantments?

Nightmare [NewNightmares] January 5 2005 9:15 AM EST

Nope. I suppose it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a smallish DM to cut down on amount of HP their AS would give, and a much bigger AMF to chop mage damage down, but no way to make your AMF go through your DM at full power.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 5 2005 9:24 AM EST

I regularily face people with DM. Both our DM s have no effect on each others DM s.

private January 5 2005 10:55 AM EST

If you cast DM, it impacts your own EO* and the enemy ED. Your DM has no impact on enemy EO or your own ED.

*Your own DM does not affect your own DM. That would be silly.

QBJohnnywas January 5 2005 11:00 AM EST

So maybe DM shouldn't be listed as an offensive enchantment, maybe as an offensive anti-enchantment? Will Dm affect enchantments provided by weapons - VA from a Morg for instance?

[MG]Mecca-Devilbot [Clan of One] January 5 2005 11:11 AM EST

No, DM will not affect item enchantments. only enchantments that are cast.

Tibike77 January 5 2005 8:24 PM EST

Ok, so let's re-formulate the Dispel Magic description :P

Training cost 4826 [Lvl 800, effect 640, 80% ratio]

Weakens the effect (down to zero if strong enough - "XYZ's [ED] fizzles under Dispel Magic") of any OTHER (i.e. not DM) enchantments that are being cast by somebody on anybody.

However, have you noticed something funny ?
Let's take my char now, for example (just doing some testing):
Fireball: 2,946 (467) Dispel Magic: 864 (691) Giant Strength: 52 (54)

Notice how GS is suddendly better (in lack of any DM to affect it) as training STR on a minion ?
I suspect that the rest of the enchantments suffered the same fate, to compensate for the presence of DM - in fact, having DM and any other ED/EO at same XP-invested level will cause the ED/EO to function at roughly 25% of the corresponding stat's trained points (well, at least for GS, that is).

Tibike77 January 5 2005 8:41 PM EST

Silly me, I was testing my GS (now Haste, which, by the way, has the same ratio of Lvl:Effect of 50:53 and 52:54, suspect 105% actual number) under the effect of enemy DM.
Your own DM *does not* affect your own EDs - it only affects enemy casted EO, your own casted EO, and enemy ED.

So, the description should read something like this:
"Weakens the effect of any enchantments that are being cast by somebody on anybody, with the exception of DM and own EDs."
Bleargh, tired. Bed soon. Again :D

And by the way, the effect of DM *seems* to apply to each and every enchantment separately instead of cummulatively.
That means (for instance), that a huge own DM could nullify 4 separate small(er) AS, which have a cummulative effect more than double of your own DM.

Salketer [big bucks] January 5 2005 9:04 PM EST

I don't know if it has been outlined but it is important to remember that having TWO minions cast the same enchantment will be A LOT less affective than spending the same exp but in only one minion.

I didn't test it scientifically but i am sure it does.

Tibike77 January 5 2005 9:10 PM EST

Before DM, that wasn't the case - same total XP spent yielded about the same effect (maybe between 95% and 102%, not exactly sure on numbers).

However, with DM into play (and if the DM application rules don't change), EXCEPT DM, any other enchantment will be severely weakened if trained on two minions instead of one, with same total XP spent - DM will have effectively double strength ;)

RIPsalt3d January 5 2005 11:04 PM EST

I think your description needs some editing, please allow me to help.

Starting with "Weakens the effect of any enchantments that are being cast by somebody on anybody, with the exception of DM and own EDs."

"the effect of any" is redundant, so we can remove that. Same goes for "that are being cast by somebody".

The fact that DM is an EO implies that it is cast on opposing minions, so "on anybody" is incorrect. For the same reason, excepting "own EDs" is unnecessary.

As for "the exception of DM", it wouldn't make much sense for the spell you are casting to have an effect on the spell you are casting, right? Even if two minions cast DM, it is acknowledged that the spell levels stack, combining to form a single enchantment. So we can do away with that bit, too.

And there we have it. The perfect description for Dispel Magic:

Weakens enchantments.

Xenko January 5 2005 11:25 PM EST

Assuming it acts the same as CB1 where it cost an increasing amount per level increase of a spell, and the spells levels add together, it is cheaper to train on multiple minions since on two minions the cost to increase the spell one levels stays lower for longer (ie 10 exp/level as opposed to 11 exp/level).

The disadvantage to training the same spell on two minions is that you are using up a spell spot.

The advantage gained by spreading the spell over two or more minions is very slight though, and only has a difference of maybe a few thousand points at most unless you get to extremely high levels.
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