Protection = Endurance? (in General)

Hi all, how exactly does Endurance work? All I've been able to glean is this entry from the Armour FAQ;

"damage may be further reduced by Protection; finally, by Endurance tattoos. Neither Protection nor Endurance translates into AC per se. Both Protection and Endurance apply to both magical and physical damage."

Does Endurance (trained by Jigs or gotten from Tattoos) have the same game mechanics as Protection?

Is the only difference that Protection can be trained by a minion, while the reduction given by Endurance can not?

Or do they work in different ways?

From just a very quick look at fighting without my ToE for a couple of fights, it looks as if my ToE (level ~6K) reduces all attacks by a bout 500. Maybe Protection and Endurance take off a fixed amount, instead of a percentage like AC.

If this is the case, it makes these great at low level, but they lose effectiveness at higher.

Although being applied after AC is a strong point. Get AC to reduce a lot of damage by a percentage, then mop the rest up with a direct reduction!

But, it might not work like this at all! ;)

Armor Class also works a bit like that - if you have 100 AC, that will first "shave off" between 100 and 200 damage (random), then reduce 21% of the remaining damage (also random percentage, probably between 19% and 23%).

Endurance and Protection apply *after* AC, but my guess is that Protection works more like AC (possibly only percentage-wise and no fixed reduction), while Endurance seems to be more biased towards fixed amount reduction rather than percentage (or no percentage at all).

Now, depending on the order in which AC, Prot and Endurance are computed, and depending on your PR/AC/Prot-XP/Endurance-level, various scenarios exist... in time, we will find out which is closer to the truth ;)

Ah... I hadn't seen AC now reduces a little damage before it's percentage reduction...

I don't think we have a way of finding out if Protection is applied before, after or at the same time as Endurance...

:(

A lToE @ 3k is, at least at the moment, better as a Trollskin +1 and a Cloak +1

Apparently (from the first post copy-paste of FAQ/Help), the order is:

- first AC, with AC*[1+random(1)] flat reduction, then a percentage reduction of 0.21[%] * AC * (Random Adjuster)

- second Protection ED, possibly with only a [%] reduction * (Random Adjuster) - maybe the "effect" listed is exactly the % damage stopped (I suppose Protection is still "almost capped" at 80, which would translate roughly into 80% damage stopped)

- finally Endurance (Tatoo of Endurance effect on minion, or intrinsic Endurance on the familiar from the ToJ), which probably stops a flat amount of damage * (Random Adjuster) - maybe around 1/8 to 1/16 from the Endurance level.
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A minion with a ToE on him (no cloak, no armor), AC only from boots (CML[14]+56), gloves (Tulkas [6]+24), helm (HoD [8]+32) and shield (MS [15]+60) would amount (for a very, very hefty NW and cost, almost unimaginable now) to [43]+172 = 215 AC vs physical damage -> roughly -45% physical damage (55% of normal) and -36% magical damage (64% of normal).

Assuming a Prot of 80 "effect" (and also assuming 80 means 80%, which is also a long shot, probably only 40% or so) you get 11% of normal damage and 13% of magical damage - so about 1/10 of normal - and Protection ED would be much more relevant as AC (which seems doubtfull, but with huge DMs around, I wouldn't be so surprised).

With that (even with an assumed 100 AC and 80 effect prot only giving 40% protection), you still have 1/3 damage to you from any source. Basically, that means the ToE is at least 3 times more effective on you as on anybody else - and if the damage reduction is kept at the 1/10 of level rate, that roughly translates into 1/3 of level of tatoo "basic" damage absorbed - so with a Level 100k tatoo of Endurance and those figures, you can say "bye bye" to 30k worth of ANY damage - which is not negligible.

From what I've observed (casually) the reduction from a ToE is not a straight reduction. But I've no idea how to figure it out...

:(

I moved my ToE to one of my smaller characters to test it versus Decay. As Decays damage is fixed, if the ToE reduced it, we could work out how Endurance works.

It had no effect.

It seems that (I guess protection has no effect either) the only thing able to reduce Decay damage is again AMF.

A small evener in its battle against Dispel Magic.

With the random nature of standard damage, I have no idea how to test the effectiveness of Endurance now... :(