How much variation does fireball damage do? (in General)

xDanELx February 4 2005 9:36 PM EST

I recently got my CBF upgraded to +17 in hopes of taking down more fireball mages. I took some results, very few admittedly, but I think the damage variation is quite large.

CBF at +14
Myrdin hitting Mang Dagul with a fireball in round 3 range,
Trial 1: 20882
Trial 2: no damage
Myrdin hitting Mang Dagul with a fireball in round 4 melee,
Trial 1: 25512
Trial 2: (didn't live long enough) :\

CBF at +17
Myrdin hitting Mang Dagul with a fireball in round 3 range,
Trial 1: 1198
Trial 2: no damage
Trial 3: 10262
Myrdin hitting Mang Dagul with a fireball in round 4 melee,
Trial 1: no damage
Trial 2: 7029
Trial 3: (didn't live long enough) :\
Myrdin hitting Mang Dagul with a fireball in round 5 melee,
Trial 1: 18933
Trial 2: no damage
Trial 3: (didn't live long enough) :\

I do have screenshot of two battles at +14. Don't know if the above description is enough. The other question is whether fireball grows stronger as the round progresses?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] February 4 2005 9:45 PM EST

As you get closer to your opponent (as the ranged rounds pass), yeah, damage goes up quite a bit for fireball.

Cranium Basher February 4 2005 9:48 PM EST

I'm pretty sure the dmg increases as rounds progress, I've noticed more damage later on in fights...

Something needs to be done, because CoBf ruins FB's completely, Nothing should TOTALLY ruin a strat, (no item) It sucks.

Why not a Cloak Of Balrog Ice, That totally ruins CoC.

InebriatedArsonist February 4 2005 10:08 PM EST

Nothing more needs to be done to the CoBF. Jon already changed the amount of protection on it once. There are still less than twenty total cloaks in the game, anyway, so what are you crying about? You can't expect to beat everyone.

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] February 4 2005 10:16 PM EST

I think it's a little unfair that a 1 pr character can't be hit by you if their NW is high enough, but then again I have to agree with Arsonist, enough has been done already. There's other ways to beat them than just through FB.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 5 2005 3:06 AM EST

IIRC in the first round of ranged combat FB takes a 30% damage reduction. 20% in second and probably 10% in the third.

It's easy enough to check. Recored the amount of AMF backlash damage you take (it's a fixed amount based on your FB level) and work out the difference in the ranged rounds from any backlash taken in melee.


Phaete February 5 2005 3:22 AM EST

I don't see why something needs to be done.
The CoBF wins over FBs...

Paper always wins from rock, you need scissors if you want to win from paper.
Trying to invent a rock that wins from paper and scissors makes the entire balance go away :)

No-name February 5 2005 5:30 AM EST

For someone like me who use FireBall for their main Attack, I am very displease if anyone in my fighting list who has a Cloak Of Balrog Fire.
But I still really think the Cloak Of Balrog Fire is the Coolest Items in this game ever !!!
Wish someday I can have one $_$.
Anyway I also really like TNO's Idea, to have a Cloak Of Balrog Ice.
As matter of fact, we also should have:
Cloak Of Balrog Steel (Magic Missile)
Cloak Of Balrog Physical (That Reduce Damage from Range or Melee Weapon.)
Also make those Cloak like Tattoo you can only equip one.
What you guys think ?_?

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] February 5 2005 5:40 AM EST

/me thinks no.

My main attack is FB too but there's other ways to beat a CoBF user.

CoBF is one of a kind, a great way to beat tanks and a good defense against Fireball, it doesn't entirely block Fireball unless it's big enough, therefore requires a lot of money to be put into it which effectively leaves the NW on your other items lacking. Also there's the fact that it will reduce enchantment and skill effects on the wearer to 0 which kills it for a lot of strategies.

What I have to ask is how can something with such a list of penalties that can only really do anything if it has enough NW behind it be overpowered?

QBsutekh137 February 5 2005 10:23 AM EST

GentlemanLoser is correct on his 30, 20, 10. I had not even noticed that the AMF backlash was constant, so I appreciate that heads-up and thought I would go ahead and verify...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 5 2005 9:20 PM EST

;) NP! I did a bit of digging in CB1 with MrsDi into the mechanics of the AMF backlash, and it applies (again IIRC) in the same fashion to CB2. With a small amendment for 5 being the maximum number of minions not 4.

I made a post some time in January on it. The AMF is something like .4 x (Modified DD level) where the level (number in brackets) is modified by the ranged penalty and number of minions the spell targets.

QBsutekh137 February 6 2005 1:04 AM EST

In CB1 I was accustomed to using Decay, which doesn't follow the constant rule. But it makes sense that the other spells do. Thanks again for your diligence! *smile*

Undertow February 6 2005 1:15 AM EST

Cloak of the balrog ice? What is wrong with you people? Where the hell are you getting your Balrog lore from? This is stupid.

Fishead February 6 2005 2:43 AM EST

Aren't you the one that thought a combat gi was mage gear?
See thread:
Looking to trade my ToF by Gfbasenut1 at January 30

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] February 6 2005 2:46 AM EST

What's wrong with a GI as mage gear?

RIPsalt3d February 6 2005 3:00 AM EST

Combat Gi: Base AC 1 -2% magic. Bonus to UC; grants Evasion based on pre-bonus UC.

I suppose it depends on your definition of 'wrong'. ;)

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] February 6 2005 3:02 AM EST

Good AC (upgrade costs, much better AC than MCM), slight magic penalty, amongst a mage's magic bonuses who really notices 2% anyway?

Now tell me, what makes it so unusable?

InebriatedArsonist February 6 2005 3:19 AM EST

fishhead: Aren't you the one that thought a combat gi was mage gear?

When hasn't the Combat Gi been a very real option for mages and enchanters?

From the Help section:

For magical damage, only the enchantment on the armor is counted towards effective AC.

Now, I don't know about you, but the vast majority of the characters I face rely upon mages for success, not tanks. In light of this, having a piece of armor with a high base won't necessarily do any good, as it's the enchantment on armor that protects against magic damage, not the base. While a Mithril Chain Mail might be the better option for the long haul into the seven-digit and eight-digit NW levels, the Gi will remain quite worthwhile until tank teams are more prevalent.

Fishead February 6 2005 3:19 AM EST

I'm not aware of the upgrade costs for the gi, so it is an economically sound choice for armor, but it's most beneficial to a minion using unarmed combat. I just feel that mage gear gives a bonus to magic, or at least no penalties. 2% isn't much but it is a penalty.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2005 3:27 AM EST

Chet, I think Decay does follow the .4 constant, but it's based on .4 x caster hit points or 1/2 hit points... >_<

Can't remember... Have to log on to CB1 to hunt out that thread...

Fishead February 6 2005 3:29 AM EST

My response in the thread "yes, duh" was to the statement that is is not a mage rare. Not that it doesn't benefit a mage, it just isn't intended for a mage. The combat gi has much more to offer than just AC.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2005 3:33 AM EST

I donno, I once consider using it on a mage, and training a base UC instead of Evasion to get the (+10/+15 then?) bonus to evasion it gave.

Now, I think the Gi's been changed from giving a fixed Evasion bonus, but I'm unsure how "grants Evasion based on pre-bonus UC" works. I thought UC gave 1/3 of it's pre-bonus level as Evasion, so how does the Gi add to this?

Or has UC been changed so that it only gives the 1/3 pre-bonus level as Evasion if your are wearing a Gi?

This would mean ToJ's don't get any Evasion...

Fishead February 6 2005 3:41 AM EST

I believe that the amount of evasion a gi grants is proportional to the level you train your UC. Training a base UC gives you minimal evasion bonuses from the gi.

InebriatedArsonist February 6 2005 3:48 AM EST

This would mean ToJ's don't get any Evasion..

-ToJ's train Evasion, according to the Meta-Stats page.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 6 2005 4:36 AM EST

That's a big Doh! on my part then! ;) So they train both Evasion and UC.
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