possible multi (another one =$) (in Public Record)

Xeropie, Hangar Eighteen, Dispair ... Same IP, unusual amount of xfers between each other

Two roomates and a friend that never goes home.

This isn't a multi, this is 3 seperate players in a private computer lab sharing a cable connection. If logs exist for this sort of thing, look up how many times the 3 above accounts have answered bot checks simutaniously

Looks to me like there has been a considerable amount of one sided transfers between you.

When you play on the same IP as someone, it's always good to make a thread announcing that when you first start, also as a rule you need to keep transfers at the very least fair, no selling a katana for $3 or sending someone 20k because they bought lunch for you, just make sure that what shows up in the transfer logs is obviously fair and you should be ok.

I understand the general economic and gameplay considerations at work here, so I appreciate everyones concern in this matter. We will make an effort to play more fair than usual due to the unusual nature of our situation.

However, the question arose in my mind: What is the typically accepted time-frame to make these trades fair? Should we only trade if one can immediately pay or reciprocate on the deal? Or, is 24 hours a reasonable standard? Or is this even a question that has been asked before?

If not, I will assume that trades need to be immediately fair, and will operate as such. Thank you.

A couple ideas would be:

1, Add a note with the transfer "For $---, payed in -- weeks".

2, Post threads in public record.

let's take a look

( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$2550	4:15 AM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$2396	3:34 AM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		Descent ( Newbie )	A Mithril Cuirass ($1042710) -- finished -- see CM	3:23 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$338	2:46 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$186	2:45 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$102	2:45 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$87	2:45 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$16542	2:36 AM EST
Dispair ( Next Week )	12.23.138.247		Dispair ( Wailing Death )	$60000	2:26 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$15197	2:23 AM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		Dispair ( Wailing Death )	loan A Mithril Cuirass ($884008) -- gettingclose	2:12 AM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$13962	2:08 AM EST
Pronell ( storage.cu )	12.23.138.247		Pronell ( research.cu.cb2 )	$30000	1:23 AM EST
Pronell ( storage.cu )	12.23.138.247		Pronell ( compost.cu.cb2 )	$30000	1:23 AM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		Xeropie ( Xero )	loan A Mithril Cuirass ($814195) -- fastforgeWOW	1:05 AM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$12827	1:01 AM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$11784	12:55 AM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$10827	12:48 AM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$9946	12:44 AM EST
Pronell ( research.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$9138	12:21 AM EST
Pronell ( research.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$8395	12:09 AM EST
HangarEighteen ( cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	$250000	February 25 2005 11:48 PM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		Pronell ( research.cu.cb2 )	loan A Mithril Cuirass ($499594) -- ourclanisthebest	February 25 2005 11:29 PM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$7713	February 25 2005 10:31 PM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$7086	February 25 2005 10:25 PM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		Dispair ( Wailing Death )	loan A Mithril Cuirass ($425597) -- fastforgelikemad	February 25 2005 10:22 PM EST
Xeropie ( Xero )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$6510	February 25 2005 8:42 PM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		Xeropie ( Xero )	loan A Mithril Cuirass ($393046)	February 25 2005 8:39 PM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$5981	February 25 2005 8:30 PM EST
Pronell ( research.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$5494	February 25 2005 7:32 PM EST
Pronell ( research.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$5048	February 25 2005 7:29 PM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		Pronell ( research.cu.cb2 )	loan A Mithril Cuirass ($310426) -- workworkwork.. :)	February 25 2005 7:25 PM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$4637	February 25 2005 6:50 PM EST
Dispair ( Next Week )	12.23.138.247		Dispair ( Wailing Death )	$75000	February 25 2005 6:49 PM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$4260	February 25 2005 6:44 PM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		Gfbasenut1 ( Illinois II )	An Elven Cloak ($56020) -- FOr ToA	February 25 2005 6:39 PM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$3914	February 25 2005 6:30 PM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$3596	February 25 2005 6:28 PM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$3304	February 25 2005 6:26 PM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$3035	February 25 2005 6:22 PM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$2788	February 25 2005 6:19 PM EST - log on next account to forge.
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		Dispair ( Wailing Death )	loan A Mithril Cuirass ($182740) -- [215,,40,]	February 25 2005 6:15 PM EST - Out of BA send to next account
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$2562	February 25 2005 6:06 PM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$2353	February 25 2005 6:04 PM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$2162	February 25 2005 6:02 PM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$1986	February 25 2005 6:01 PM EST - one hour loan expired. Logged on to main account to forge.
Pronell ( research.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$1825	February 25 2005 5:01 PM EST - Out of BA
Pronell ( research.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$1676	February 25 2005 4:58 PM EST
Pronell ( research.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$1540	February 25 2005 4:57 PM EST
Pronell ( research.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$1415	February 25 2005 4:55 PM EST
Pronell ( research.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$1300	February 25 2005 4:52 PM EST - Log on the next account to forge
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		Pronell ( research.cu.cb2 )	loan A Mithril Cuirass ($98627) -- [215,,40,]	February 25 2005 4:48 PM EST - Log on to send to next account
Xeropie ( Xero )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$1194	February 25 2005 3:45 PM EST - out of BA
Xeropie ( Xero )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$1097	February 25 2005 3:44 PM EST
Xeropie ( Xero )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$1008	February 25 2005 3:41 PM EST - Logged on next account to forge
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		Xeropie ( Xero )	loan A Mithril Cuirass ($82127) -- [215,40]	February 25 2005 3:39 PM EST - Out of BA here send to next account
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$1777	February 25 2005 2:48 PM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$781	February 25 2005 2:44 PM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$1377	February 25 2005 2:44 PM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$606	February 25 2005 2:43 PM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$556	February 25 2005 2:40 PM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$511	February 25 2005 2:34 PM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$901	February 25 2005 2:33 PM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$760	February 25 2005 2:31 PM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		Pronell ( research.cu.cb2 )	$102015 -- forge job payment	February 25 2005 2:08 PM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$449	February 25 2005 12:56 PM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$247	February 25 2005 12:55 PM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$136	February 25 2005 12:55 PM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$74	February 25 2005 12:54 PM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$735	February 25 2005 11:35 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$485	February 25 2005 11:35 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$320	February 25 2005 11:34 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$211	February 25 2005 11:34 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$1040	February 25 2005 11:31 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$572	February 25 2005 11:30 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$315	February 25 2005 11:29 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$173	February 25 2005 11:29 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$95	February 25 2005 11:29 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$2029	February 25 2005 11:25 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		Dispair ( Next Week )	$100000	February 25 2005 5:59 AM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$2251	February 25 2005 5:32 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$1117	February 25 2005 5:01 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$614	February 25 2005 4:53 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$338	February 25 2005 4:49 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$186	February 25 2005 4:49 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$102	February 25 2005 4:48 AM EST
Dispair ( Wailing Death )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$87	February 25 2005 4:48 AM EST
HangarEighteen ( 01.forge.cu.cb2 )	12.23.138.247		auctioneer ( blacksmith )	$2115	February 25 2005 4:39 AM EST

Notice, there is no other account's activity while one is forging. Coincidence? what is that chance of that? Would 4 people with 4 accounts on 4 different computers willing to fast forge for only 75% BS cost (that is less than 50$/BA, since it's about 200$/BA with single forger.) I'm also not so convinced with the explaination "2 roomate and a friend"... how do you explain the 4th account? Am i missing something?

First of all Lyon, for only playing a month you sure seem like you have the whole game figured out in your back pocket. That's awful acusitory.

The only reason that I'm so quick to defend this guy, is I've BEEN in this kind of a situation. Couple guys have an apartment that is the perma-crash of everyone else. When one guy finds a cool game, they all start playing. In my case there were 3 computers, 2 game cubes, 3 PS2's and a plethra of other gaming equipment, with well over 100 games. CB and Gunbound took up most of our time.

So, lets look at the facts:

You've got 4 accounts.

They all belong to the same econmic clan.

They share an IP.

They transfer items amongst themselves.

They fast forge.

Show me where they broke a rule? It's not like all the transfers are one way to one of the accounts. It's not a bunch of feeder accounts. They transfer all over the place. It's like saying a public bus system is a bunch of one way trips. Well yah, but it all works itself out in the end.

There is nothing wrong here, at least IMHO.

And btw, Lyon, your fast forge split makes no mathmatical sense.

A 300k job takes 1500 ba to complete.

1 forger spends 1500 ba: 200$/ba

4 forgers spend 375 ba each: 200$/ba.

They make the same amount, they just use less BA.

I agree with tow.
They are obviously just friends in an economic clan fast forging.
Lyan would you be happy if we found any of your clan using the same IP and then accusing you?
These threads should not be made unless there is obvious evidence of a multi but with fairly spread transfers for clan activity then there are no grounds.
We should know by now that looking at IP means nothing, transfers are important and when you notice the item was last sent back to Descent it shows it was obviously a fast forging contract and not just sending equipment.

Zoglog, actually these threads should be made even if you don't have all the evidence needed.

Often there are things players don't have access to that admins can see, but there are much more players than admins so obviously these threads are one of the most common ways of us finding a shared IP to look into.