ToJ and Endurance.... (in General)

Chocolate Thunder February 23 2005 10:19 AM EST

Maybe I'm wrong, as I'm not in the mood to play around and verify this in a proper fashion, but my 66K ToE and my 86K jig seem to have about the same level of endurance trained (both seem to block around 70% of a 10K hit). I guess it could be different with a hit in the 30K damage range, I really havent' checked. But it brings up a point....

I think the Jig is strong enough without Massive endurance (maybe throw a few extra HPs and dex on to equal it out). And it certainly doesn't need to have as much Endurance as a slightly smaller ToE. It might not be important to remove the Endurance entirely, just drop it down a few notches.

Thoughts? Am I just bitter? confused? Or am i right for once :)

Todd February 23 2005 10:39 AM EST

"Maybe I'm wrong, as I'm not in the mood to play around and verify this in a proper fashion"

You might have something, but no one will know until someone does a proper analysis. Stuff like this isn't that difficult to do, but due to the huge variations in, um, everything here in CB land, you need a lot of data points to predict any trending.

Lumpy Koala February 23 2005 10:48 AM EST

well Jigs are the only type of tattoo that trains HP. And on top of that it has endurance close to that of ToE.

Well let's face it, Jigs are the only tattoo that can make a PR 20 dude pulverize a PR 100k dude.

Chocolate Thunder February 23 2005 11:18 AM EST

Its something i've played around with a fair many times with damage that's normally in the 10K range and less (both physical and magical), and its been fairly consistant that both are around 70% damage reduction in that range. I have not played with it against a fireball or CoC that does 30K or more damage (I don't think there is physical damage over 10K to really test).

But my point wasn't that the Jig has the same endurance trained as a ToE... its that the Jig has endurance in the first place. And a pretty fair amount of it. Seeing as ToF, ToI, ToS don't even train HPs and the ToE and ToA only enhance the person that equips it, I think the ToJ would be just fine with UC, HP, Dex and Str, i think the endurance is a bit of overkill.

Chocolate Thunder February 23 2005 11:33 AM EST

And i also misread what todd said.... I'm on no real sleep.

I think I'll play around a bit with both on Sunday to get a full analysis, i don't feel like losing a few hundred battles today.

It may be useful if a few people could loan me their different sized jigs and ToEs on Sunday, just so i can get a better sample size of each tattoo. If anyone is interested I think a jig in the 10K range, and a jig in the 150K range would be useful, Chuckle's ToE and a 10K ToE would be useful as well. Chatmail me if you have a Tat those ranges you'd be willing to loan me for an hour.

Though, for the time being, i stick by my hypothesis formed with no scientific experimentation what so ever... that Jig endurance could use a good nerfing :)

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] February 23 2005 11:57 AM EST

"my 66K ToE and my 86K jig seem to have about the same level of endurance trained (both seem to block around 70% of a 10K hit)."

Ever thought that a 20k ToE might have done 70% too? As far as I know it's maxed at 70% which means that you aren't going to see any difference from ToE's extra endurance.

Doc [girl power] February 23 2005 12:22 PM EST

I have used the TOE as well and found that the lower level TOE performs just as well if not better at times than a higher level TOJ.


Chocolate Thunder February 23 2005 12:29 PM EST

Chuckles, that's sort of my point, sort of. I think both are maxed at around 70% damage (i'm sure my 86K ToJ doesn't ahve enough endurance to block 70% of a decent FB or CoC, but the 66K ToE does). Maybe Limiting the ToJ's endurance max reduction to around 50% or so would level the playing field a bit. Just some ideas.... as i said, i'll play with both on sunday to get more hard numbers.

QBsutekh137 February 23 2005 1:51 PM EST

I DID do a "proper analysis" on this quite some time ago.

Check my past threads for "An Endurance Analysis". I too concluded that the Endurance training on ToJs puts them over the top on balance, and also ran across the 70% figure. Your ToJs are capping out, which makes one shudder to think how large a blow it will take to dent the top three ToJs in the game.

(Spell checker is _still_ brain dead as far as tattoo abbreviations?)

Chocolate Thunder February 23 2005 3:20 PM EST

Here's chet's analysis.

One comment I have on your analysis. I know for a fact that my 66K ToE doesn't block 70% of Chuckles CoC. There's a absolute limit to how much it can block (at a given level) in addition to this 70% limit we've all noticed (or else there wouldn't be a point to leveling a ToE). I'm just curious how closely the ToE and ToJ endurance trainings relate... Even if a ToJ trains half the endurance of the ToE its still far too much.

I'll find out sunday :)
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