New Item Idea. (in General)

Chocolate Thunder March 1 2005 12:10 PM EST

We have "mage" armor, "tank" armor, "noob" armor, but not really any "enchanter" armor.

How about a Helmet that can block a certain amount of Dispel Magic? The + of the helmet can determine how much DM is blocked from that particular minion.

Good idea? Bad Idea? Am I just drunk again?

Arorrr March 1 2005 2:36 PM EST

You already have CoBF and ToE doing the same thing that you ask.

QBsutekh137 March 1 2005 2:39 PM EST

Arorrr, how does a ToE stop DM?

I think it is a wonderful idea, especially basing it on the +. That way it does not help with the enchanter being a meat shield, so it is a choice. Also, it is a choice whether to augment your enchanting capability or focus on stopping DM. Balance can be controlled by adjusting upgrade costs accordingly on this new item.

I would say to make it head-gear, as that would make it a nice, juicy decision against a corn.

Drunk or no, I think this sounds sensational.

QBsutekh137 March 1 2005 2:56 PM EST

Hm, on further thought...

The DM blocking could be tricky. Right now, DM applies to the enchantment that someone has "around" them, not really against the caster. BUT, Jonathan has already said that DM thwarts each caster separately (like with two stacked AS), so maybe this would not be a stopping point and could work at the time of casting.

So, could you have DM and AMF on your team, and then have your own AMF caster wearing a hat like we are talking about so that your AMF still cast at full level? INTRIGUING.

(hope I just didn't muddle this thread beyond comprehension).

Chocolate Thunder March 1 2005 3:06 PM EST

Erg, to be honest, blocking your own DM wasn't something i was thinking about, but that could cause a bit of a DM/AMF combo overpowering problem. That takes it from an amazing idea to a workable idea.

I'm not sure of the feasibility of this, but i guess (seeing as its merely a pipe dream anyway) the helmet could be set to only block opponents DMs from affecting that particular minion?

QBsutekh137 March 1 2005 3:08 PM EST

I like it any way you cut it. *smile* As long as the DM-disabling is only moderate (and expensive), I don't see this as getting out of control no matter how it is presented.

sasquatchan March 1 2005 3:11 PM EST

I'm no magic user, and have never owned a piece of +% magic armour.

But all the armour that's magic + doesn't do anything for offensive/defensive spells ? (Even at a reduced rate ?) It only pumps up DD spells ?

Chocolate Thunder March 1 2005 3:19 PM EST

This is quite different than adding a +3% to all spells. This is more of a defense against a specific strategy.

Myonax March 1 2005 5:22 PM EST

DM is already declining in popularity due to it seems to be a niche spell and only effects a couple types of team. Having a armor item that negated DM and having your one AS enchanter wear it would make the DM completely useless versus an already limited pool.

the path I would prefer to see Jon has already started rolling down, damage type specific items. I would love to see a Steel/Ice based version of the CoBF. Maybe with different twists...

CoBF stops fire prevents enchantments...
Maybe Steel makes a minion unable to Cast DD or Use weapons but prevents both melee and magic missile damage..
Maybe Ice makes prevents cold damage and reduces the dex on your team (cause they are cold).

Something along that lines, no reason that Fireball should be only spell that can be networthed to uselessness. Also make it so you can only wear one of those type of cloaks per team, so you couldn't have a CoBF and a Steel cloak on same team.

Alienfb March 1 2005 5:43 PM EST

Nice idea Myonax, different types of cloaks, very nice

Chocolate Thunder March 1 2005 5:44 PM EST

Amoungst what the top 10% (assuming that means the top 10% of characters)

Percent of all trained xp used for the given stat
Antimagic Field 11.5%
Dispel Magic 6.7%
Ethereal Chains 1.9%

Percent of all minions who have trained the stat
Antimagic Field 18.6%
Dispel Magic 15.9%
Ethereal Chains 5.1%

About the same % of minions (in the top 10% of characters) Have DM as have AMF. Would AMF be considered a niche spell?

Using DM is a legitamate and popular strategy, and currently the only two counters for it are to not use Enchant Defense Spells or to pump them to ridiculous levels.

Would these Helmets make DM extinct? No, in fact more people may start to use DM in Conjuction with AMF/EC (as Chet was pointing out). I know if i had one of these helmets, i'd train DM to just below what my helmet could counter, and put the helmet on a AMF/AS minion.

Wouldn't it be nice to use AS again without getting nabbed by DM?

Myonax March 1 2005 7:18 PM EST

Well you comparison isn't all that relevant. A better comparison would be to compare AMF vs DD users:
MM 25.9
FB 18
CoC 9.4
Decay .9

So 54.2 % of minions do DD and AMF works on all them.

AS 18.4
GA 5.3
Hst 7.3
GS 8.9
VA .6
prot .8

41.3% of minions.

I switched my 75K DM to a 70k AMF and have never looked back.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 1 2005 7:50 PM EST

DD spells do much more damage than weapons. AMF is a must.

If spell damage was reduced and CBF's stopped being too good at blocking FB I'd change back to DM + FB/CoC.

But you need AMF to stop any mage team killing you.

QBsutekh137 March 1 2005 8:17 PM EST

Well, the new "hat" could be given a somewhat double-chain-mail nature, in that it would be _really_ expensive for a small gain.

Myonax is right...DM does seem less popular than I originally had thought it would be. WIth the DD familiars and high mage teams, AMF is sooooo essential that I think DM has remained niche. If DM did not fizzle AMF so much, I think DM would be a LOT more popular. But then again, if this new hat is simply a device to allow AMF/DM coexistence, that would be kind of dull...

sasquatchan March 1 2005 10:44 PM EST

Sorry, I wasn't clear about the magic bonus granting items..

I guess it was two parts: Does the bonus apply to enchantments ? (I don't know, guessing they do, maybe at a reduced rate, just like magic penalties aren't fully in force on enchantments.. )

But my point was, if they do increase the level of enchantments, isn't that a defacto gain against DM ? Your level is augmented higher, so stronger effect.

Agreed, it doesn't block DM, but it does strengthen your effect in the face of DM.. (again, assuming it works on enchantments..)
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