on tattoos affecting fight rewards (in Changelog)

AdminJonathan March 9 2005 2:33 PM EST

Added to faqs -> armor. Please read this before posting the same questions everyone else has.

Quark March 10 2005 12:13 PM EST

Then is it possible to see our virtual PR? I'm trying to level my 2 minion + ToJ team, but I'd like to know how that 40k team + 43k ToJ compares to my 53k 4 minion team + 8k LToF setup. The latter is getting close to double the money rewards for fighting the same people.

GnuUzir March 10 2005 12:47 PM EST

I have an oversized Tat, but I am in the Top Ten, and I am getting lower $ rewards is that just PR/Score gap or is it effected by my Tat??

QBsutekh137 March 10 2005 1:06 PM EST

Yeah, G Max...it is easy to see virtual PR -- it's called Training. *smile*

Quark March 10 2005 2:05 PM EST

I know training gives char total PR - I meant the virtual PR including the Tattoo effects. It looks like I'm being rewarded as a 65k or so team with 41k score and 43k Tat.

[EG] Almuric March 10 2005 2:42 PM EST

From the FAQ: "For your virtual PR to be the same as your displayed PR, your tattoo lvl should be about 70% of your PR"

So if you have a 100K PR character with a 70K Level Tattoo, you end up with a 100K Virtual PR. Lets see what a 50K PR char would do with that Tattoo:

OTL = Optimal Tattoo Level (i.e. one at 70% of your PR)
ATL = Actual Tattoo Level

Calc 1: Virtual PR = PR - OTL + ATL = 50K - 35K +70K = 85K Virtual PR

Calc 2: Virtual PR = PR - .7 * OTL + .7 * ATL = 50K - (.7 * 35K) + (.7 * 70K) = 74.5K Virtual PR.

Calc 3: Virtual PR = PR - .5 * OTL + .5 * ATL = 50K - (.5 * 35K) + (.5 * 70K) = 67.5K Virtual PR.

Calc 4: Virtual PR = PR - .25 * OTL + .25 * ATL = 50K - (.25 * 35K) + (.25 * 70K) = 58.75K Virtual PR.

If our 50K char had no tattoo, he'd be:

Calc1: 15K Virtual PR
Calc2: 25.5K Virtual PR
Calc3: 32.5K Virtual PR
Calc4: 41.25K Virtual PR

I'd be inclined to believe it's somewhere between Calc3 and Calc4. Maybe .3, just because that's a natural analogue to .7. Anybody else have any thoughts on how to calculate it? We may not get any more out of Jon.

Cossadinha March 10 2005 5:34 PM EST

maybe it is like this:

(PR + ATL/0,7) / 2 = (75k in your example)

since OTL = PR*0,7 we would get in optimal case:

(PR + PR *0,7/0,7) /2 = PR

Hapster March 10 2005 5:40 PM EST

Judging from Jons previous posts, I think if you want an exact number, take one of the magic tats, see the spell level and then determine whatever pr that spell level would produce.

and is there any chance that tats level at a rate also partly based on their relation to pr so all tats will converge on 70% of pr if used by a single team long enough... Otherwise I think I'll need to rent mine out just to get it to 70% because I didn't have it from the start...

Gothar March 10 2005 5:57 PM EST

Wow - I am SOOOOOO dreading my daughter bringing math homework that she needs help with - glad I still have a few years! That gave me a terrible headache.

mihalis March 10 2005 8:03 PM EST

I thought, and it seems other think so, that the virtual PR was the PR you would have if you trained all your available XP. Now I read this: "For your virtual PR to be the same as your displayed PR, your tattoo level should be about 70% of your PR."
So, when the character is not wearing a tattoo (or a base one), and all XP is trained, then the virtual PR is lower than the displayed PR. Is that right?

[EG] Almuric March 10 2005 10:34 PM EST

Jon: "If the base reward (the reward someone with a "just right" tattoo gets) for beating someone of a given score is N, someone with a small tattoo or none will get more than N; someone with an oversize tattoo will get less."

From here. Does that answer your question, Mihalis?

chernobyl March 11 2005 2:36 PM EST

OK so the FAQ says that equipping a tattoo may raise the "lowbie bar", that is something I totally agree with ... but it seems that the XP adjustments are still a bit haywire. I have 2 characters, neither of which can use my tattoo thanks to the new rules. My tat is just about lv 20K now, which is nice; the problem is, my main character has PR 65K which is far above the "normal" level for that tat, i.e. this should be considered "little or no tat"....

But - when I unequip the tat, my XP and money nearly DOUBLE when fighting the same characters. Equipping the tat is worthless, it is definitely not strong enough to assist in fights, so now what do I do with my mis-levelled tattoo? Using it with my low character (PR 18K) results in huge XP cuts, and again, the tat is not high enough to assist in higher-level battles; meaning I can't "fight up" as it is phrased. Is this totally right, that even having a little tattoo (30% of PR) can cause a huge cut in XP?

AngryZac March 11 2005 4:35 PM EST

I too have realized some drastic cuts that have me wondering if the formula was meant to be this harsh? Before when I was around ~20k PR and fighting at around 40-50k (with an oversized Tat) I was geting great rewards, but now that I'm about 30k PR and fighting around 70-145k I'm getting considerably lower rewards. I thought if you fought up considerably it would negate the effect of the large tat?

AdminJonathan March 11 2005 4:41 PM EST

Zac, what you are seeing is not a penalty, but a lack of a bonus.

IOW, before, you were getting more than you should and now things are back to normal.

AngryZac March 11 2005 4:45 PM EST

Is there a level at which I can fight to again receive that bonus?

AdminJonathan March 11 2005 4:54 PM EST

sure, the question is, can you beat people at that level...

chernobyl March 11 2005 5:51 PM EST

I was more interested in the effect of an UNDERlevelled tattoo vs. no tattoo; this seems to result in a relative XP cut, but the tattoo isn't enough to raise the bar I can fight at, making the tattoo totally worthless to that character. I have decided to just not use it until my low level character is at the "normal" PR for it, then switch over.

I can understand a small (~15%?) XP cut for any tattoo, since the familiar takes some of the fight XP for itself, but I'm seeing closer to 50% less (compare 32 XP to 14 from the same opponent when using my ToJ); is this right for a tattoo that is only 30% of PR? Maybe the tattoo levels up more/less (and take an appropriate cut of XP) dependent on the wielder's VPR? Not totally sure what's happening here. :-P

mihalis March 11 2005 8:25 PM EST

chernobyl, if you use your 65k PR without the tattoo, and hit your best opponents, and then hit opponents that have a score about 25% lower (than your best opponents), do you see a similar cut in rewards? Your tattoo may be low level compared to the optimal 70%, but it still brings your virtual PR up a little, which translates not in penalty, but in lack of bonus.

chernobyl March 12 2005 4:02 AM EST

That makes a lot of sense, thank you. The 'VPR' thing is still a little off to me but I think I've got it down now. I'll be more careful with ToJ levels in the future :-)

QBJohnnywas March 12 2005 7:53 AM EST

Just a little note on tattoos and fight rewards.

I just started a tank and equiped a LToA level 3970. Not a massive tattoo but... Thought 'ok I'll just give him a boost and build his hp'. Well unless I fight characters a lot larger it is now pretty much impossible to start from scratch in that way. My character with a (1) score fighting other characters (1) score = rewards: cash $1, xp 0. Without the tatt but with a katana and compound equipped rewards as normal...

QBJohnnywas March 12 2005 8:05 AM EST

Not a complaint BTW just a comment. Out of interest I fought up and my 50pr char armed with the same LToA fought against a 4000 score char and won. Result? Normal rewards. =)

robinhood March 13 2005 1:29 PM EST

I think the best way to get good rewards right now is not to use tattoo at all .... i wonder is it just for me or not but if i wear a tattoo and fight as sufficiently up the rewards i get is no way comparable to what i get when i remove the tattoo and fight with people i manage to defeat without tattoo ... FYI i have 4 tattoos all of different level and i have tried with all of them ... used them one by one and fought with people as high as possible to defeat with that tattoo ... but the best rewards i get is without wearing any tattoo ...
I seriously want to know if there is someone who is managing to get better rewards using a tattoo rather than not using it (obviously fighting at max level possible with/without the tattoo as case may be ) ...
If these tattoos are not helping us to perform any better i wonder whats use of these things ... i know a lot of items have been nerfed in past .. but they have been rarely been made as useless as the tattoo presently ... well if u consider rewards .. if u want satisfaction that you get on defeating high PR guys its another matter ... wearing a CoBF would always help me defeat tougher guys and get somewhat better rewards .. a big weapon would do the same ... having a corn would increase my magic power to a level that is certainly above my PR ... so see they have a clear advantage ... i want some advantage for using a tattoo too ... i seriously think the penalties right now are too high and in many cases lead to negative effects ...
one more thing ... penalizing a ToJ was ok .. but what bad a ToE or ToA can do even if a low PR guy uses them ... idont think a 10k level character can defeat a 40k level character even after using a 300k level ToE ... so why blame these "non-evil" tattoos ...
Balancing is ok .. but what has been done to the poor tattoos is really brutal ...

ANJAN March 13 2005 1:50 PM EST

my stats:Score / Power Rating: 244,524 / 107,644

opponent :Score / Power Rating: 225,778 / 94,800
You are awarded $174 and your Minions receive 87 exp each. with 95k ToJ
You are awarded $271 and your Minions receive 114 exp each. with 13k lToE
You are awarded $331 and your Minions receive 144 exp each. none

opponent: Score / Power Rating: 215,514 / 110,642
You are awarded $131 and your Minions receive 72 exp each. with 95k ToJ
You are awarded $269 and your Minions receive 102 exp each with 13k lToE
You are awarded $362 and your Minions receive 185 exp each. none

I believe Robinhood has a point here.The max rewards that i get with a tatoo are never as good as the rewards i get w/out a tatoo.I think wearing a tatoo is detrimental at this stage of the game.

robinhood March 13 2005 3:16 PM EST

just see how bad this guy is being penalized .. using a 13k ltoE against 100k PR char should be perfectly ok ... but still he is losing around 80$ per fight compared to when he uses no tattoo .. too costly .. isnt it ??
A non-familar tattoo making u loose so much would obviously discourage u .. again how much this 13k LToE help him ?? he may go at max 10 k level above his best beat without tattoo ... so would that fetch him those extra 80$ ?? i mean can he beat anyone by using his 13k LtoE so that he again gets $362 per fight ?? i dont think so ...
I would like to tell what happened with me ... i got a base ToE from auctions 2 days back ... i maintain a fight list of around 8 people ... the best guy whom i was able to defeat gave me an awesome 300+ money reward ... i fought hard these 2 days ... i took my ToE to 8970 level .. all on my own ... my fight list improved ... i have now all new better 8 people much above the previous guys ... but now the best gives me only around 240-250 $ ... the one tht used to give me 300+ now gives just 200-210$ ... i feel so bad ... what for i have to suffer this money loss .. ok i realized my fault .. i used a tattoo .. those things should not be used ... if a 9000 level non-familiar tattoo hurts his 100k owner who raised the tattoo like a child all on his own so bad ... then these tattoos are really evil .... i thought the plan was to stop abuse of huge tattoos ... ohh may be my 9000 level ToE is too huge for me ... so sad i spent my 1.3 million on it ... those HoI's wud have come cheaper and have helped me much more without causing any penalties
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