Strat discussion. What tattoo would you use for this group? (in General)

Here's my group, Feuersturm. I have the ToJ basically only because it was the supporter item, but now I want to reevaluate and try to fit a tattoo to this group. I will say that the Jig is working very well with this group. It essentially keeps the group alive longer and allows it to survive better intact into the melee rounds, where this group obviously shines.

I'm gonna keep my thoughts to myself for awhile on tattoo possibilities, because I want to see what people can come up with. Keep the ToJ? Get a ToA? ToE? ToI? ToS?

Power Rating: 125,249 Score: 160,536

Ziegelstein HP: 23,226/23,226 ST: 23,234 DX: 23,240 AC: 0
Bloodlust: 5,784 (1.19) Mark of Preservation (TOJ) lvl 95,620 Lifetap Maul (Morgul Hammer) [84x47] (+17)

Fleisch HP: 20/20 ST: 20 DX: 20 AC: 0
Antimagic Field: 56,576 (?) Vampiric Aura: 12,691 (?)

Feuersturm EXP: 4,811 HP: 23,918/23,918 ST: 20 DX: 20 AC: 0
Cone of cold: 45,519 (10,119)

Since your team is a melee-centric and there are no AS, you can't go with ToE, ToI nor ToS. Unless you change your strat.

That left you with ToA, ToE or ToJ. Since you have AMF and VA, ToJ is the best choice. Also, you have a CoC mage, ToJ can be there to dilute your damage recieve from mage team and let you survive into melee.

With your tank, you shouldn't wear ToJ on him. Give ToJ to Fleisch and put him in front. He's a meat shield anyway. Your tank then can afford more AC and magic item to boost DEX/STR.

Last, you have to decide if you want a ToJ or ToA/ToE if you want to boost your tank without the extra minion of ToJ. If you go for ToA/ToE, you better with ToA+archery. Your 3-minion team means your tank dex/str are low. You need the ToA to boost your tank strat.

ToE on your tank is not good strat since your tank dex/str are low and his HP is not that high either. You better off with a ToJ in front who can take both melee damage and magic damage for your team.

Yeah, what he said.

Well, i have a CoC mage in back with the ToA, and a tank in front of him, my CoC mage uses a compound bow , which is why i gave him the ToA and my tank the good body armor.

So far i like the strat i have on HungerForce.

I think ToJ is best for your char.
Although TEM? Why not ETM? I can't see why the enchanter is there with 20 HP. Ok, so it makes CoC/Fireball from your opponent slightly weaker for one round but wouldn't it be much better taking up a hit from their ranged weapon or even just giving your tank an extra round to live and do damage? Especially when the tank is only able to do anything in melee.

ToS=Most other tats wont do anything for you really, but ToS may take down a couple of enchanters in ranged, as it is your CoC is spreading between all of your opponent's minions every fight, it'd help a lot if it got to hit just 1 or 2 targets. Beats wasting a big hit on a couple of 20 HP enchanters.

ToE=Not really an option, you don't have the HP for it, ToJ would do better for you.

ToI=If you can get the two CoCs to last 5 rounds each, sure. But I think one big attack beats two mediocre attacks so I like the ToS helping out the CoC idea better.

ToF=You could maybe get it to work well but really not the best option. I'd keep ToJ rather than get one of these.

ToA=In the short term, it'd be terrible for you. In 6 months, it's value will probably shoot up (when people realise that Todd and Spydah aren't actually idiots and have ToAs for a reason) and when tanks are more common, it'll be invaluable to you as it'll be your tank's only way of even hitting your opponent (DX).

ToJ=Good option, will do well for you now but I'd really consider changing to ToA/ToS soon.

"I think ToJ is best for your char." *at the moment. ;)

Oh and the ToS, yeah it'd need a small AS.

I think Boo is right...

Great points people, I'd like to add some of my thoughts now.

I've been thinking about the ToA because I could give my tank a little boost to catch up with 1 and 2 minon groups' tanks. My tank has to survive as long as possible and the morg helps with that a lot. Making sure that he's dealing damage might be the key, even though I'd be sacrificing armor. That said, I'm not a fan of the ToA option right now as I think it would hurt his survivability significantly.

I'm actually very surprised that you are all narrowing out the ToE so easily. Think massive morg + VA + ToE. I thought that this might be extremely cool, because my tank already heals nearly as much damage as most groups my level can deal to him. With a self healing endurance tank in front, that CoC will have plenty of time to mess people up. The CoC is the real killer in this group. What if this group were a two minion? Would that make the ToE strat more viable?

Chuckles, I liked the ToS idea. Dunno if I'd be willing to add an AS though.

I'd love to hear from some more people!

Oh and since no one figured this out yet, I thought I'd explain my TEM setup. If someone fights me, and the chanter is in front, it will die. As it is now, they'd have to either FB/CoC it or kill my tanks. Against the right strat this arrangement means they might have to fight more that twice to kill my group.

It's sort of nit-picking to think it's better either way, because I think the advantages of either are both obvious and negligible

Starseed,

Your last comment on your TEM strat is very poorly thought.

First, ToJ on your tank means your tank lack in AC department and cannot wear enchantment armor.

Second, saying T ahead of E will save your E in a few round if oponent does not have DD. That is wrong. If you put the ToJ on E, ToJ will do the same thing as your tank and save your tank valueable HP to survive to melee. ToJ->T->E is much worse set up than ToJ->E->T. With 20 HP, your E will die against 80% of the team who has at least 1 DD. For the last 20% who do not have a DD, would you like to have your T die one round before E or the versa? Beside, ToJ on E will make your T much better with AC and enchantment.

Arorrr,
How can the tattoo displace armor from my tank that I don't have?
When I buy some armor, I will put it on my tank and move him back. I'm not sure why you've assumed I'm completely retarded.

And as for your second point, are you aware that magic missile is the most popular DD spell?

If you have any well thought out comments on tattoos, I'd appreciate your thoughts in a cordial and courteous fashion.

"Think massive morg + VA + ToE. I thought that this might be extremely cool"

Think of it this way, ToE adds HP (that's really all it, AC or Protection do unless you can get 100% damage reduction). It adds x amount of HP which is small when you have a low HP to begin with. ToJ however taking hits for a couple of rounds gets you a much larger amount of extra HP. Well, not sure that I explained it well but whatever, you get the idea (hopefully).

Also, ToA isn't so important just yet but I assure you, when tanks are more popular you'll want every bit of ST/DX you can get and without an EC, GS or Haste your tank may end up quite small...

hah, never mind. Your last comment said it all.

I'm not sure if you got my point about the ToE chuckles. Yes, essentially the ToE adds HP. But what if I were able to make the damage done by my tank high enough, and the incoming damage low enough, that I approached the point of gaining more hp from VA than I was taking? That's what I'm getting at. If I were able to get close enough to that threshold, my tank would be impossible to get rid of before my CoC wrecks them. That is the strategy I'm playing with, I just need to get a ToE and try.

Answer me this, chuckles, what would you think about that kind of strat for a TM group. Or what if I went ToE and morg on a single tank?

I would consider another enchanter with AS/EC - you get extra HP and the EC takes care of enemy tanks/ToJ's. That means you also have two meatshields in front of your tank and mage. Which means they last that much more longer. I would chuck a xbow or bow on your tank too to deal some damage in ranged. As far as the ToE is concerned - my char Raven has a LToE on my CoC mage and he lasts well into melee. The battles I win see my mage with most of his HP intact. Some of that is the 3 meatshields in front of him, but most of that is the ToE. I would definitely consider it for your team.

Yes I understand your point, but ToJ will be better for you unless you get your HP very high. ToE would allow your minion to become 'invincible' against a lot of opponents once it gets to melee but ToJ both help the tank and give the CoC mage a few more rounds (as it lowers damage from FB/CoCc by making them hit another minion as well, ToE however would only help one of your minions, not the tank AND the mage.

"Answer me this, chuckles, what would you think about that kind of strat for a TM group. Or what if I went ToE and morg on a single tank?"

ToE and Morg? Not really sure, haven't thought much about that one but I assume the VA would be too vulnerable to DM (you'd more than likely really be relying on the VA..). TM? Erm... not as good as what you have now, probably better to ask someone who's good with maths though which would make your CoC mage have a higher level spell (given that with 3 minions it doesn't need to train AMF or VA and neither does your tank). I'd think ETM would work better though.

So in an interesting twist I was given as a supporter item an item, that puts this issue to rest :D

With the addition of the mage shield, I was given damage reduction that my tank so needed. I've now concluded the ToJ is the undeniable leader of the pack. Thanks again for input everyone!