Sevare
March 21 2005 1:04 AM EST
So Ill admit, I watch a little too much Animal Planet at times, but a few weeks ago I saw a show advertised for tonight and I did watch it. It was on Dragons and if there is any truth behind the myth and how they would have been in reality. Anyone else find this show interesting or even see it? For those curious the shows site is www.dragonsarecoming.com
Icewindvz
March 21 2005 5:19 AM EST
oh i watch that too, man that is kind weird it's say the dragon can brther fire it's because it use for cooking....wuahahahhahaah..
Man who ever figure this out got be a PhD...lol
Scorchsaber
March 24 2005 1:36 AM EST
The very idea is absurd. Not only is it very unlikely that wyrms of any sort could breath fire (they would be more like wyverns I would say), they would also have to have huge wings and weak bones. They would not survive in the wild at all, flocks of birds could kill them. Furthermore, there is no fossil evidence of either dragons or their ancestors (and evolutionary parents and brothers).
Wyrms of all sort are simply a fanciful myth (although not fanciful to all when they were made!)
Smashure
March 24 2005 2:04 AM EST
I agree with scorchsaber, To be able to fly like a bird you have to have hollow bones that are very light. Dragons being the size and weight that they are they wouldn't be able to fly.
Sevare
March 24 2005 2:17 AM EST
well, if you saw the show, you would know that they never said they were real first off, it was more of a xenological (think thats the right name for study of "mythological" and extinct creatures) documentary. Second, the bones they could have had werent hollow but honeycombed making them strong yet light. This combined with the flight bladders holding hydrogen would make them light enough to fly. As for breathing fire..the hydrogen filled flight blatters were used in this along with platinum as a catalyst. All in all it was a very fun and entertaining show in my oppinion.
I see you didn't watch the special... otherwise you would have heard the explainations.. they went into small detail about how they could have breathed their fire (a chemical reaction with hydrogen within air sacs and some other chemical I can't remember off-hand), and flew (*hollow bones that were very light*). Also, there isn't any evidence offered by the special or anywhere else as it was a _ficticious reinactment of possibly dragonic life_ based upon the fact that so many cultures that never came into contact came up with very similar descriptions of a dragon.
Sevare
March 24 2005 2:17 AM EST
*smacks self* bladders...bah, spelling goes out the window at 11pm :P
"They would not survive in the wild at all, flocks of birds could kill them"
There were no birds back than, and look around you, there are no dragons around now for a reason. We can never know for certain as to whether or not they existed. I kinda doubt though. Would be too cool to be real.
Smashure
March 24 2005 3:27 AM EST
If they did have light bones then they must've been very small creatures. Any Hydrogen sac hey may have had must've been small as well. The fire Breath would've been short. And a sac of Hydrogen is very dangerous to have (which would explain their dissappearance.)
Heres my theory on dragons:
Some kind of prehistoric, fierce reptile which spews acid. Acid can burn organic material very much like fire can.
Either 'burn' was lost in translation, or people who stumbled upon bodies automatically assumed the damage was caused by fire, since they did not know about acid or digestive enzymes back then.
We are a lot more similar to this theoretical dragon than the 'fire-breathing' version since we already have a limited number of salvitory amylase in our saliva. Having a dragon that could vomit up concentrated gastric acid doesn't seem too unlikely.
As for evidence, the dragons could have been a very limited population, and so we have not found any evidence yet.
I kinda doubt that dragons could actually fly. There is discrepency between the Asian dragon and the European dragon. Asian dragons don't have wings.
As for fire-breathing.. meh, too dangerous for dragons to handle ;)
Maybe its methane which is somewhat flammable. e. coli, which are located within our intestines, produce methane as a by-product from processing sugar. Maybe if dragons farted into their own lungs and mixed in some oxygen.. It is the only combustion 'chamber' I can think of.
Sevare
March 24 2005 3:40 AM EST
ahh yes asian dragons (in the show forest dragons) wings were vistigial (for those that dont know what that means, its kind of like a snakes legs, they are there, but so small they are worthless for use) because they had to survive in the forests of asia. The were originally aqautic dragons that survived the KT event because of their aquatic nature.
Sevare
March 24 2005 3:44 AM EST
oh and i forgot to mention the process of the hydrogen flight/swim/breath bladders of the dragons for those that didnt see it. They hydrogen was produced as a byproduct of a certain enzyme in their digestive system and funneled into the bladders, for mountain/prehistoric dragons these were flight/breath bladders, meaning they could do both at once, but very very very few times as it would use up the hydrogen their body had produced. In aquatic dragons they developed into swim bladders like we see on seasnakes and fish, which latter became breath bladders for the forest dragons whose main use was to remove the hair from their tiger prey. Did anyone that saw the special feel kind of dissapointed that they didnt talk about the desert dragon? That was the one i was interested in most.
meh, well.. if you think dragons are fascinating...
Check out water bears! I, and many others, are convinced they originated from another planet.
Yeah yeah, when I first heard this, I wasn't convinced they came from another planet either... But if you study them, you'll be amazed.
Their infrastructure is totally different from any other organism we've observed so far. It allows them to survive dehydration, extreme temperatures (as low as sub-zero), vaccumes(space), and extremely high pressures.
Logistically, an organism would only develop what was neccessary for survival so it can conserve its energy for reproduction. This organism seems to have exceeded the neccessary by a lot for some reason.
I think its a descendant from some alien species that fell from space dust a loong time ago. Would be kinda depressing if these were the Martians we've been seeking for such a long time though.. I always figured they would be little green guys with ray guns.
yeah, these things are microscopic unfortunately.
fun stuff, anyways. got to go sleep. :) just in time for the flush. gnite.
Undertow
March 24 2005 5:04 AM EST
Most of the stuff from this show sounds like it was based off the book "The Flight of Dragons" which brought up points like hydrogen bladders, honeycomb bones and things, as well as including mating rituals and the reasons for having large piles of treasure (metal doesn't digest too well.. eat a knight and.. well.. treasure is all that comes out.)
It was a great book, check it out.
Sevare
March 24 2005 5:12 AM EST
the whole dragons and metal thing was explained that they chewed up and used platinum as a catalyst for their ability to breath flame, so that is why dragon dens were near large deposits of this.
Scorchsaber
March 24 2005 11:09 PM EST
There were no birds back than
Yes, I have not seen the show, but I am sure that there were birds in ancient times, such as the age of Greece. Unless you are talking about the idea that they were in the age before birds in which I say: Then how would so many people know about them around the world back then? It is more likely to be just many myths, analogous to each other.
Asian dragons don't have wings.
I do believe that there are some depictions of the asian dragons with wings.
"Second, the bones they could have had werent hollow but honeycombed making them strong yet light"
If that worked so well, why are there no analogues ever to be found?
with platinum as a catalyst
And if I recall correctly, isn't platinum extremely rare, in oxidized, elemental, and diatomic forms?
"it was more of a xenological (think thats the right name for study of "mythological" and extinct creatures)"
Xenological. Xeno- strange. It was the study of the strange.
As for breathing fire..the hydrogen filled flight blatters were used
Also, any flame coming from a hydrogen sac would reach the hydrogen and cause an explosion.
A random jumble, indeed, but I have not the time or patience to organise it.
Sevare
March 24 2005 11:54 PM EST
a false palate much like the crocodiles would avoid a backdraft into the hydrogen filled sacs. As for evidenece of honeycombed bones, there are, do not condors and other large birds that fly have honeycombed and not completely hollow bones? Platinum is rare today, yes, but we are talking thousands or even millions of years ago in some instances. There have been many geological changes. Why is it hard to believe a creature would be able to find and make its home near a rare resource it needed for its life? isn't that what survival of the fittest is all about?
Reebok
March 25 2005 10:00 AM EST
Chicken, thanks for informing me about Water Bears, those things are sweet!
Sevare
March 25 2005 10:03 PM EST
if anyone is interested, the special airs again tomorrow night, believe the times at 7pm and 10pm.
DizzyGuy
March 26 2005 12:01 AM EST
hahaha, chicken... that's so weird cause we were just talking about water bears in bio the other day... yay for random bio 112 facts =P
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