NW and weapons (in General)

AdminJonathan April 4 2005 10:08 PM EDT

One thing that keeps me scratching my head is a change made way back on CB1. There was a change where the net worth increase in an item had an additional effect on weapon damage beyond the fact that the x had increased. Why was this done? Shouldn't adding additional x have diminishing returns? (I think it still does, just not as much as if you left net worth ENTIRLEY out of that equation). If you want to spend 5 million adding one ore more x, go ahead...but that x shouldn't mean any more than adding a $5000 x.


Weapon damage comes from ST and NW. Back in the day on CB1, it became clear that with my original formulae, designed for a high end of maybe 200k, were inadequate to deal with the PR that were actually reached. Basically, weapon damage wouldn't keep pace with HP at the higher levels, not if you limited yourself to the NW you could earn legitimately (i.e., w/o USD).

Sure, making NW a non-factor at the high end reduces the incentive to use USD, but what you have left is Mage Blender. Wrong solution. :)

WeaponX April 4 2005 10:14 PM EDT

you mean we are not playing mage blender now? :)

Mags April 4 2005 10:47 PM EDT

" you mean we are not playing mage blender now? :) "

No kidding -- I sure feel that way. But I have a better question, because it pertains directly to me. :D

Does this mean UC gets screwed yet again? I don't think my fists have a NW.

Blarg April 4 2005 10:52 PM EDT

they might if you have some sort of gloves on them. ;)

Will [Retired] April 5 2005 2:33 PM EDT

Does this mean that two items of similar networth will inflict similar amounts of damage?

Also, what prevails at higher pr, strength or the networth?
For instance with armour at higher pr and damage the -(AC*0.0021) damage reduction prevails wheras at lower levels (<5k pr) the -AC is more influential...

Taken from help:
Total reduction of DMG = N + (DMG - N) * AC * (0.0021 +/- randomness)

AdminJonathan April 5 2005 3:17 PM EDT

" Does this mean that two items of similar networth will inflict similar amounts of damage? "


"what prevails at higher pr, strength or the networth? "

Some people would tell you NW.

[From CB1]Tequito April 5 2005 4:48 PM EDT

st and nw, it all depends. I've used the biggest bow in the game and can't hurt spid significantly (1.4 mil pr). against guys of similar pr, if you have a huge weapon you can slack on st a little bit, but you still have to keep up on it or the damage reduction with armor and st will over power you no matter what. Todd and sutek have had many discussions in just that area (and dx too) in cb1. Browse the forums there from a few months before cb2 came out and you'll find 'em. Some pretty good reads.

QBsutekh137 April 5 2005 5:29 PM EDT

Thank you, Jonathan. I did not realize the wall would be hit that hard for the poor tanks. But would it be hit that hard even if you gave more weight to STR?

Sure, then the STR vs. DD would be kind of a straight-up fight (assuming STR was made more linear as far as damage growth, at least higher up), but NW would still add an edge in terms of +. The additional hits have always been the saving grace in the tank vs. mage battle, no?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 7 2005 8:17 AM EDT

I'm not sure I understsand this correctly.

Weapon damage is formed from two things. Str and NW.

The Strength side can be increase by spending xp to raise str and wear str boosting items.

And obviously the NW side of damage is increase by spending cash on the weapon.

Does increasing the pth on a weapon also increase the NW side of the damage it inflicts, as the overall NW of the weapon increases?

If so, then spending cash on the X of the weapon increase both the Strength side of damage (the greater the X of a weapon, the greater effect the Strength of the minion has) and the NW side of damage because the cost of the X upgrade increases the weapons NW?

Or have I totally mis understood things!


mihalis April 7 2005 9:24 AM EDT

With pth, you have more chance of hitting your opponent, but the damage you can deal is determined by the X of the weapon and your minion's strength, not the total NW of the weapon.
Well, I think that's how it is...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 7 2005 9:28 AM EDT

That's not what the rest of the post implies, and why I'm confused! ;)

QBsutekh137 April 7 2005 10:07 AM EDT

Pretty sure it means net worth spent on X, GL. Nothing else would make sense. The + side of the house is completely separate from the x.

The bottom line is that as x upgrades start costing several million a pop, no tank would be able to keep adding x to combat the growing mage threat. So, net worth had to be worked into the equation to help offset that.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 7 2005 10:15 AM EDT

Ah... Then why not just make the X costs less? Or linear?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 7 2005 10:24 AM EDT

Right, so would this be correct.

With a fixed strength and two weapons with an equal base damage, if the X of both weapons were the same and cost the same to upgrade to that X, then both would do the same potential damage.

But with a fixed strength, two weapons of an equal base damage and X, if one weapon cost more to get to that X than the other, and therefore had more NW pumped into it (assume both weapons have a + of zero) the weapon that cost more to get that X would do more damage?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 7 2005 10:29 AM EDT

" Does this mean that two items of similar networth will inflict similar amounts of damage? "


And that's because the two items might have wildly different base damages right?

A 1Mil NW [5xA] weapon would do far less damage than a 1 Mil NW [100xA] weapon?

mihalis April 7 2005 10:55 AM EDT

Rare weapons have higher base, and also cost less to upgrade. Higher base is why we want them, and lower damage upgrade cost is why we pay several millions to have them.
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