Damage reduction analysis (in General)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 6 2005 11:16 AM EDT

Hi All.

As some might have noticed ;P I've been thinking a lot about damage reduction in CB2.

Consider a minion with 50AC (top end for a mage, but not too hard to get) I'm going to ignore the direct AC reduction for this, so this will provide an approximate 10.5% reduction. This minion also has a Protection of 22 (around 70K xp, so expensive, but not unobtainable) and a ToE large enough after AC+Protection to reduce the remaining damage by 75%.

This minion would take ~ 17.5% of all damage thrown at him. That's like having an AC of 393! A ToE on it's own large enough to reach the 75% cap is like having 358 AC in itself.

Wow. No wonder my fights are starting to last longer.

Now picture AMF going before this damage reduction routine. With a AMF effect of just 20% (quite easy to keep) you now take ~ 14% of all magic damage that hits you (I've assumed the 50AC to be +AC for ease...) Up your AMF to 40% (an AMF roughly of equal level to the DD you face) and that becomes ~ 10.5%. So that 300k Damaging CoC now does 31.5K

If you've spent a lot of xp on AMF, and manage to get it to 70% your damage taken become ~ 5.2%.

And I though CBF + MgS was bad.

Physical damage has nothing like AMF to tack on before the damage reduction routine (AC/Prot/Endurance). Doing only 17.5% damage to someone is bad enough, but compare that to doing only around 5%. I think we're going to see a lot more stalemates appearing in CB.

AMF is a must. On any team. The reduction it gives is amazing. And it's the only thing to protect against Decay (if a decay mage lasts long enough anyway!).

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced melee damage is the way to go. Multiple hits backed up with VA (from weapon, to avoid DM), while using AMF + ToE yourself. And BL to up your damage and VA leach.

Keep the tank single, so you can sink as much HP into it as possible. Can you imagine a Tank with 100AC, a Protection of 25 and a ToE. They would take 15% of any damage before AMF, with the ability to leach it back, coupled with massive HPs... Whats the most HPs trained atm? 300K? In effect, that minion would have over/nearly 2 Million HPs...

I don't think magic can any longer generate the sort of damage needed to kill something like that...


(And please excuse any silly mistakes with my calculations!)

QBJohnnywas April 6 2005 11:48 AM EDT

A single tank like that could still be countered by a mage team - build up a single CoC ToE mage up to 2-300k pr, then add three enchanters, making sure that one has a huge EC. As you're bloodlust you're not going to cut through the enchanters in ranged and that mage being ToEd means he's going to withstand some large hits whilst dishing out a huge amount of damage. Ice Cold Cylo on his own hits for what, 150000 -200000 per hit? That could cut you down to size pretty quickly. You could be looking at a draw but more often than not a lose. However your options to increase your damage are aided by the fact that you have NW increase on your side as well as XP. And the paper-rock-scissors aspect of the game mean that there are plenty of people you are going to beat.

Melee was always the way things were going to go. Endurance, CoC's extra damage, the speed Jon upped the limit on rounds fought, the changes in the ranged formula etc etc. I'm just surprised it's taken this long to become obvious! =)

QBsutekh137 April 6 2005 11:49 AM EDT

Just one point, your Tank would have no ToA, then. Unless you are going to invest in a lot of weapon +, all ToA tank teams (even multiple minion teams) will dodge everything you throw at them. This will make your BL and VA far less useful. It is a nifty strategy, but it is a big sacrifice to make -- ToAs are amazing.

Caedmon [Revenge of the Forgers] April 6 2005 11:53 AM EDT

Remember, GL, that magic is not affected by total AC, but only AC generated by +'s.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 6 2005 12:14 PM EDT

Johnnywas, as long as this set up is keeping AMF up to scratch, and at least getting a 40% on it, a 200K CoC is going to be doing somewhere around 20K per hit... Very manageable. With no dex on the mage, the tank is hitting, hopefully more than once. Who knows, maybe enough leech will cover that sort of damage.

Chet. Yeah, I came to that conclusion in my dex, pth thread. ToA's rock melee world. I can see this sort of set up leading to stalemates if pth can't be taken abouve 10+DB. ;)

caedmon, I'd assumed +AC for ease. +50 while being a push, isn't too hard to get too.

But someone who's dedicated 50% of their XP from scratch on AMF, possibly on a seperate minion, and sticking some AC+ToE on another (with Prot thrown into the mix) might not do a lot of damage, but will be very hard to kill...

I'd not like to pump all my xp into a DD spell to only do around 5% of that damage to my target (granted, it's still better than throwing a FB at a CBF! ;P )

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 6 2005 12:16 PM EDT


Slight correction! ;)

"(around 70K xp, so expensive, but not unobtainable)"

I meant 70K in level, not xp spent! ;)

Maelstrom April 6 2005 12:43 PM EDT

To summarize GentlemanLoser, a ToE results in the best damage reduction. Now, you can't use a ToE along with a CoBF, so you don't need it anymore.

Surely, you want the VA and BL that GentlemanLoser talked about, but how can you get both? A BoTH drains 20% of damage! I have a BoTH for trade, and I want the CoBF that you don't need anymore. Deal?

Nightmare [NewNightmares] April 6 2005 1:26 PM EDT

I dunno, considering VA is a ED and BL is a skill, I could easily train both.

Maelstrom April 6 2005 1:43 PM EDT

Well, OK, you CAN, but do you want to divide your XP that much?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 6 2005 1:59 PM EDT

AC would give the best damage reduction by far. Get around 358, and you can swap out your ToE.

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