Help me think through this NW=PR thing (in General)


Undertow May 20 2005 4:27 PM EDT

Okay, I was going over some stuff in my head... this is what I was thinking, I just can't fit the pieces into the full picture. My heads been weird lately, it's hard for me to think straight. It's like I've suddenly gotten ADD. I've been dizzy and lightheaded a lot too. Anyway.

So, you've got... say... a corn. If you up the corns NW, it ups your PR. However, you get the added effect of increased magical ability as well.

Now, if you just train your spell, it has the same effect... hrm...

Training ups your pr, NW ups your pr.

If your corn is set to.... say... +4? That's 8% right? I dont' have one, so the numbers aren't exact, but follow my lead.

Now, that +4 corns addition to your NW gives you X pr. Training the spell that high gives you Y pr. When does X pr become less than Y pr, meaning that it's cheaper per PR to up the corn than simply train the spell...?

Does anyone understand what I mean?

Should a new players single mage just start off the bat at saving for rares?

CooperTX May 20 2005 4:31 PM EDT

I get what you mean, at what point does a % point become more cost effective than putting more experience into that spell. When is it more effective to raise your NW than to wait and continue to increase spell or whatever that that % raises. That would be a great formula if someone could figure it out. I am, however, not all that math inclined.

Undertow May 20 2005 4:33 PM EDT

I usually am.. but... like I said... my brain is scrambled.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] May 20 2005 5:02 PM EDT

I think I get what your saying but I think part of your disconnect comes from, the training of exp vs. the spending of cb2$. One could argue buying BA, but besides that there is no way to turn $ into PR unless you do it with NW. So if you have a bunch of untrained exp laying around I think its ALWAYS better to train up the spell vs. using your $$$ to bump your corn, because techinically speaking the training of exp costs no $$$.

CooperTX May 20 2005 5:04 PM EDT

But the question is then, when do you want to spend money on NW. If we can determine that, then we have a good chance at making sure we don't over-upgrade or under-upgrade.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 20 2005 6:21 PM EDT

If the item (for simplicity) gives a 1% increase for x additional PR, it's better value to up that item when the 1% increase gives you more levels than training enough xp to increase your PR by x would.

Unless someone figures out how much NW increases PR by (and by how much training xp increases PR) that's gonna be very hard to forecast...

:/

Will [Retired] May 20 2005 6:44 PM EDT

Ive been finking about this too...

On my char The Trinity, MPR 130k.

Ive got a corn +5; The Crown of Reverence [0] (+5) 326,903

with the naming it gives 12% extra to my enchantments for 1 minon. I have 3 minions so this equates to 4% extra on the char as a whole.

When I equip it it gives me ~5,700 extra PR. Thats a % PR increase of 4.38 %. If it were any higher the PR increase would not be worth it.

I'll need to wait till i get a higher MPR before addin another +! :)

Undertow May 20 2005 9:49 PM EDT

Does anyone know if the PR increase from the NW of a given item is linear? If so then...

If your pr increase is X, and your spell power increase is Y then...

Y/X gives you a ratio, figure it out for both the item and the XP train.

If the items ratio is higher, you...

I've got to deliver some food, to be continued.

CooperTX May 20 2005 10:02 PM EDT

A few figures to play around with, maybe you can start a data set or something. These numbers don't include weapons as it is slightly harder to ascertain their effect on PR with the allowance.

PR without any equipment: 35,057
PR with 181,974 NW of equipment: 42,036
PR with 595,992 NW of equipment: 53,085
PR with 777,966 NW of equipment: 57,368

Now I have found that a tattoo has a different effect depending upon whether I have the other equipment on the character or not, here are those numbers.

PR without any equipment but the tattoo: 37,700
PR with 777,966 NW of equipment and the tattoo: 58,601

I hope these figures help with any formulas that may be developed.:)

Undertow May 20 2005 10:17 PM EDT

What's the level and NW of the tattoo? What equipment are you removing/adding for each of those sets?

Undertow May 21 2005 1:11 AM EDT

Intesting cooper.

At 181,974 each point of pr accounts for 26$ in NW.

The next chunk you gain 414,018 NW. Here, each PR point gives 37$ in NW.

The last chunk is a NW gain of 181994. As luck would have it, this is very close to your initial NW report. Which means the data can be compaired. Here, your pr is worth 42.5$ in NW.

This means that as more NW is gained, it influences your PR less.

Which means if you really are determined to load up your char with equipment, the more you give it the less it will effect PR.

At least, with this little chunk of data.

QBJohnnywas May 21 2005 3:09 AM EDT

My view of the pr/nw change is that it is designed to make us think in the longer term. I think the best way to work out what to do is to consider this: if your character's cash only comes from fight rewards, what gear would you be able to afford? And once you have that gear what level would it get to if you didn't put any outside cash into it, only fight rewards?

It would stand to reason that by the time you hit higher pr levels your nw wouldn't be affecting your pr levels as much as unless you injected outsized cash amounts into it . The changes are designed, I think, to make your nw grow in proportion to your character growth.

maulaxe May 21 2005 3:44 AM EDT

another thing to consider is that given that you can now use both money and xp to up your pr, using both will increase your pr even faster - would the increase in growth RATE be worth a slight decrease in what your investment earns you (assuming there is a point where NW becomes less "effective") in the short run?

being able to grow faster has got to count for something... and the detriment of having too much NW could likely be offset.

what do those people who have enough cash to have to worry about these things think?

Undertow May 21 2005 5:15 AM EDT

See, your both assuming a character is starting from scratch though.

Look at it like this: There are 3 kinds of characters. High NW low MPR. High MPR low NW (hi Undertow!) and mid NW mid MPR.

For the sake of this, that last group is fine, they don't matter.

High NW low MPR people have been complaining that they're screwed. I don't think they could be farther from the truth. Every amount of Xp they spend is causing their characters damage potential to rise at a much greater rate than everyone else, because big equipment is a modifier to your spells now (for now we're stick to mages.). Where as 10k XP for me trained into my char is just 10k xp, for them it's like 11k (using EXSTREMELY simple math, this is not exact at all.)

What do they do with all that extra money? Why the HELL do you think Jon upped the BA purchising cap? Load it in boys. You guys are the new clan gods.

As for low NW high MPR characters (Mr. The Tow), they rewards just went up a ton. We're sittin pretty with huge rewards, but at the same time everyone is ahead in the game now, we're lagging behind because our PR is lower. So, now it's time to sink that cash into rares and NW instead of BA.

Somewhere between these two is a PERFECT balance.

CB is a giant mathmatical equation. If you knew what it was you'd find the perfect strat, and you'd win the game, it would be over.

That's why I'm so happy Jon changes things up.

At some point upping your NW is worth the PR change. The amount of PR you gain makes you more powerful than upping your character pr the same amount with expeirance would.

THAT'S IT, I finally spit out what I meant.

But it's a shark knife we walk on, and the same is true in the other direction: Eventually XP does you more good than NW. Can't buy XP you say? Yah you can, it's limited, but you can buy loads per day.

So, that balance is what I'm trying to find.

QBJohnnywas May 21 2005 6:56 AM EDT

Yeah, but money can't buy you love Undertow.... lol....

I'll keep my eye on you to see when you hit that perfect balance then...

Undertow May 21 2005 12:02 PM EDT

Are you kidding, I see people buying love all the time in Chicago. ;)

QBJohnnywas May 21 2005 12:03 PM EDT

Lol!
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