powershields.....worthless? (in General)

Jason Bourne May 22 2005 12:48 AM EDT

u cant use them with tattoos, they kill ehcnantments...

they are only good for walls, and not really even that, cause the mgs doesnt add AC

BOM isnt worth squat unless u have some ST to beef up, and the only thing in CB2 that has ST, is a tank. what does every real tank out there have? a TOA of course.

real tanks cant use them..
enchanters cant use them
mages cant use them...
walls can, but a mithril shild would be better cause of the ac...

if you could use the MGS with a tattoo...this would be even that much better...

give the ac back to it!

or for heaven's sake, get rid of the powershield category, just make them all regular shields...

i always thought the reason you couldnt wear body armor/robes was because it would "cover" the tattoo on your chest. how does the shield do this?!?!

mage the mage shield a true supporter item, one worthy of collecting. make it have ac, block magic, and usable with a tattoo. if it has to block enchantments thats okay, not every toa tank uses enchantments...i just got rid of mine today....

the mgs is terrible, and its a supporter item!!
the BOM, is even worse...is there a situation where this is useable or worthwhile? who has a real tank out there that doesnt use a TOA?

anyone else see my point here, or am i just alone on this?

Jason Bourne May 22 2005 12:53 AM EDT

not to mention that shields already give huge penalties to dex when using a 2HW anyways....

Xiaz on Hiatus May 22 2005 1:18 AM EDT

Just because they don't work for you, doesn't mean you can assume they are useless for everyone else.

Arorrr May 22 2005 1:20 AM EDT

lol, like only real tank with ToA.. 8^)

Get real. Some day you would want to be 2T but then without a BoM on your second tank, you wish you didn't ask for it.

hahahah.. real tank = ToA? 8^)

Jason Bourne May 22 2005 4:03 AM EDT

its more important in my set up for my minion to be a wall, not another tank. i will never have a need for a bom, i see the possabilities for MGS though

bartjan May 22 2005 4:26 AM EDT

* Mage Shield has no DX penalties, so also no 2h penalty

* A proper tank does not use enchantments, but has enchanters or mages for those.

So the Mage Shield is a fine shield for a tank.

Since when does a BoM negate all enchantments? I do not see a disadvantage for a BoM, except when you want to use a ToA/ToE. Since BoM is the item granting the largest ST bonus, the combination BoM+ToA will probably too powerful.

sssimmo May 22 2005 4:36 AM EDT

same with our new hats too then

bartjan May 22 2005 4:37 AM EDT

Did you compare blacksmith prices for HoD and BoM? ;)

sssimmo May 22 2005 5:16 AM EDT

yeah you are right cos +15 to +16 on HoE is $771,108. starts getting ridiculous after that.

anywho imagine the strength if all of these types of items were equipped....scary

Phaete May 22 2005 6:20 AM EDT

Against magic damage, there is no shield (or other armor even, barring ToE) that block that much damage.

Against physical damage, you're indeed better off with a different shield.

Know your enemy,

Paper - Rock - Scissors

Phaete May 22 2005 6:21 AM EDT

Talking about MgS that is :)

Manta May 22 2005 6:30 AM EDT

Bartjan, if a tank is not solo, but together with a mage or some enchanters, it will need a ToA to be competitive.
Moreover, if I am not mistaken, STR bonuses given by armour do not multiply the STR given by the ToA.

On the other hand, a BoM can be used effectively on a tank without ToA.
And, the higher the MPR of your tank, the more convenient it is to use a BoM, a body armour and a cloak instead of using a ToA.

I also find difficult to imagine how to use a MgS: walls are better off with mithril (or ToBF), solo tanks usually need to cast some enchantment, and probably a BoM or a mithril shield would be more useful, and multi-minion tanks need a ToA. Anything else cannot use a MgS.
Maybe a solo archer could use a MgS.

However, making the MgS usable with a tattoo would be too much: any ToA tank could use one, and receive no penalty from using 2-handed weapons.
Besides, the MgS is meant to be (relatively speaking) a low-level, not something that could compete with using a MS or a BoM at the higher levels.

bartjan May 22 2005 7:35 AM EDT

So you are telling me, I *need* a ToA to be competitive? Wow, that must mean I'm not competitive?

Xiaz on Hiatus May 22 2005 7:53 AM EDT

Well, Bartjan, I been told by numerous people to get a TOA and use it, I think they suppose I haven't got a TOA because I'm a stubborn idiot...

If I need a TOA to be a worthwhile tank, I think I would've kept the one I had previously. But I figured out maybe, just maybe, the AC and ST/DX Bonuses I get from using a full set of armour might just work, eh?

So keep your tattoos and leave me the heck alone :P - Don't come whining when I turn your TOA into TOL(osing).

Phaete May 22 2005 7:56 AM EDT


Throw yourself at Susan, and see if you can get similar damage reductions against a 430k FB:

Lina : 340k ToE
Gourry : 96 AC (56 vs magic) +30 MgS

Lina Inverse cast Antimagic Field on Susan (0.19) (110k lvl)
Lina Inverse cast Protection on all friendly Minions (20)

3 ranged rounds

Susan takes damage from his own Fireball (11359)!
Susan's Fireball hit Lina Inverse [9365], Gourry Gabriev [14567]

Susan takes damage from his own Fireball (12982)!
Susan's Fireball hit Lina Inverse [13537], Gourry Gabriev [22028]

Susan takes damage from his own Fireball (14604)!
Susan's Fireball hit Lina Inverse [9622], Gourry Gabriev [15728]

Against magic damage, MgS finished the combo with ToE, AC and Protection :)

Manta May 22 2005 10:49 AM EDT

Bartjan: I just made the experiment, and tried to fight a few people on your fightlist.
The only one I was not able to defeat was Fuhgawtz. Since my PR is only 197K...

By the way, I agree with Xiaz: on a single tank, good armour can be better than a ToA.

On the other hand, I am glad that Phaete could to find a good use for the MgS.

bartjan May 22 2005 11:20 AM EDT

Don't judge characters by their fight list. Especially not when the owner is very lazy about updating his fight list...

Arorrr May 22 2005 11:38 AM EDT

Non-ToA that train in Dex/Str: HoE, Tulkas ,BoM => +40% str increase...

imagine the possibility.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 23 2005 3:42 AM EDT


"BOM isnt worth squat unless u have some ST to beef up, and the only thing in CB2 that has ST, is a tank. what does every real tank out there have? a TOA of course."

If BoM s were moved back to being normal shields instead of the power version, ToA tanks wouldn't use them anyway. They give no increase to the ToA granted Strength, so would be a waste to equip. A ToA tank would be better off using a MS.

Now that they are Power Shields hasn't changed the fact that ToA tanks wouldn't use them, they just can't use them as well. :)

Mags May 23 2005 3:58 AM EDT

"By the way, I agree with Xiaz: on a single tank, good armour can be better than a ToA."

I agree conditionally. This may or may not be true eventually depending on whether your prey will be equipped with DB's or evasion and whether they're a mage. You'd much prefer the additional chance to hit to yet-more-DX'n'ST with several tank strategies.

At 270k MPR, I can tell you a relatively small ToA is still much better than my normal equ, and before you point out that Brock is an abomination of blender, UC tanks arguably have more to gain from body/cloak than any other kind(due to the Gi and EC).

[Jedi] Danludar May 24 2005 11:18 PM EDT

Ok correct me if im wrong here is my say in this matter ok you get nice sized Strength boosting armor tulks HoE and BoM and an EC and some EBs if you have your armor set up right it's better than a ToA in boosts and the AC will help you out alot so i think that a TRUE tank should not use a ToA but rely on its armor but a ToA does prove usefull if you cant either A) afford the armor or B) dont feel like getting the armor

Signed Danludar

[Jedi] Danludar May 24 2005 11:21 PM EDT

I forgot to add to this isn't the point of a tank to have "armor" I mean arn't tanks supposed to be heavily armored so they dont get damaged just though I should add this

BrandonLP May 24 2005 11:25 PM EDT

That would be one definition of tank. There are also the light tank variants who take little to no dex penalties, often times gaining bonuses actually. Tank, in a CB sense, is simply a minion who uses weapons rather than magic.

[Jedi] Danludar May 24 2005 11:38 PM EDT

yes true Brandon a light tank more resembles a Ranger or Paladin in a way and a heavy tank more of a Berserker or a Warrior and an archer is just an Archer so i mean yes many different types of tanks but i juts believe armor should play an important role in the creation of your tank but these are my thoughts

Signed Danludar

Mags May 25 2005 12:10 AM EDT

It certainly does play an important role. The ToA represents another choice of armour which is appropriate for some strategies and not for others, which seems to me to be an excellent state of affairs. For example, your archer who shoots opposing mages to shreds will almost always be better off in a ToA, while a berserker might prefer massive DX/DB's because who cares how much damage you take if you're never hit?
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