Auction: Hidden Minimum Bid (in General)

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] June 16 2005 4:03 PM EDT

Ok here is the idea: You get 3 prices for each auction you put up. First is the starting bid, second is the hidden minimum bid the auction must reach before the system allows it to sell, and third is the buy it now price.

Before you say, "The current system is perfectly fine, just put minimum bid as starting price", which many people said already, hear me out.

You have a corn that starts at "1k starting bid" and another corn that starts at "1 mil starting bid". The 1k starting bid item will get lots of attention (which is why people post sales in FS/WTB obviously), and the 1 mil starting bid will get not nearly as much attention. Even though the goal is for both corns to reach a high price, that will not happen unless there is attention paid to the auction in the first place.

The problem with the system as it currently is, is that people want attention paid to their auction, but people realize that CB is not huge enough that every single auction is guaranteed to reach the market price.

So they post in FS/WTB instead of auction because if their items don't reach that "hidden" minimum price they have in their head in forums, they can simply say "sorry not selling for such low price".

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] June 16 2005 5:19 PM EDT

It is a good idea but the whole thing about the auction is to put items out there at a cheaper price hoping it will reach the hidden min bid. Now what would happen if there wasn't an auction and just an FS/WTB forum? All items would be way to expensive because everyone would be asking for that price they have in there head. Everyone would be camping on there items and nobody would be buying up anything.
There is always that possibility that at an auction you won't get your price, but thats just the chance you take on it. Without some of the low returns on some items in auction the whole CB2 economy would crash.
Just my point of view.

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] June 16 2005 5:48 PM EDT

With a hidden minimum it would change a few things, most people would post their auctions IN Auctions, because there would be little reason (short of selling for CB2) to post in forums. If the system was in place, and people tried putting outrageous hidden minimums, their items wouldn't sell, but they would still have to pay for the auction.

The thing is, most people WANT to sell their item, they just need the flexibility of a hidden minimum to ensure they don't get totally cheated because they happen to sell their item at a bad time of day or on a holiday when nobody is around to buy it. So a hidden minimum would hardly cause the economy to crash, in fact it would encourage more commerce goes through the auction system, which is generally a Good Thing(tm)

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] June 16 2005 5:49 PM EDT

I meant to say (short of selling for USD)

Jason Bourne June 16 2005 5:53 PM EDT

yes, but then what happens if you have an item that say, only 1 person wants.

the min bid is 5 mill, the hidden bid is 7 mill, and the buy now is 10 lets say.

the guy bids on the min for 5 mill, 5 mill is taken from him, and he waits forever until someone outbids him. but, since it never reaches the hidden min bid, he has tied up his money until the auction ends, and he might not even get the item. i can see this making a lot of people angry...

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] June 16 2005 5:56 PM EDT

I'm sorry SoulCalibur, that was incorrect. I did not suggest that auctions go on forever. I suggested that auctions have a hidden minimum amount, if that amount isn't reached by the end of the auction, then the item is returned to the person who put it up for auction in the first place.

AdminJonathan June 16 2005 6:15 PM EDT

people have done studies on this with ebay data

auctions with hidden minimums ("reserve price") sell for less

as to why that is, nobody knows for sure, but I can tell you that I don't bother wasting time on RP items anymore, either

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] June 16 2005 6:20 PM EDT

re: ebay
I wonder if it has anything to do with the auction saying "reserve price not met yet" at the top? If it looked like all the other auctions maybe it wouldn't matter at all.

Reebok June 16 2005 6:26 PM EDT

Veri, I think you missed Soul's point...

mchaos June 16 2005 6:32 PM EDT

While I certainly can't argue with the ebay statement, the original post points out that that the CB auction system doesn't approximate a perfect market nearly as well as ebay does, instead of millions of potential buyers, you have maybe fifty,many of whom aren't online for the end of the auction.

At the same time, the "I won't sell for it min bid" in the forum posts is *really* annoying, and in the end I support anything which encourages the use of the auction system.

The feature I think would be far more useful would be an "autobid" option where you could set a maximum bid and the system would automatically bid up to that amount for you, even if you're not online.

I do realize this would involve a huge overhaul of the auction system, not to mention being expensive to calculate, which, given the recent changes to discourage the merchant class, is probably not a priority. but...

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] June 16 2005 6:38 PM EDT

No, I understand SCs point and as with everything, there is always a good and a bad, pointing out the bad points doesn't necessarily discredit the idea.

Besides, if someone is stupid enough to put something up for bid with a 10 mil BIN and 5 mil starting bid and they know full well it is not worth that much, then they just wasted alot of money just placing the auction to begin with, people will not bid on their items in the future most likely if they have ridiculous "hidden bids" and that person would learn to play fair.

Maelstrom June 16 2005 6:39 PM EDT

I can't remember where it is, but Jon has a list of things that are low on his priority list, and the auto-bid feature is on it. Essentially, he said it would be nice, but that there are too many other things to do first.

Karmic Mishap [Soup Ream] June 16 2005 10:31 PM EDT

What? People can just put things up for sale in FS/WTB at a min bid, then change their minds after the sale's over? I don't think so... is that really allowable??

annuminas [Serenity In Chaos] June 17 2005 12:25 AM EDT

wouldn't everyone just put their starting price at $1, and then no one would pay them any special attention since they would all be at the same price?

Manta June 17 2005 3:26 AM EDT

I hope this proposal will not be implemented: we have already "hidden minimum bids" in FS/WTB forums, and that is already too much.
Annoying behaviour should not be encouraged.

[Banned]Monty June 17 2005 8:08 AM EDT

I don't like it because people have no idea what thr ptive is, so they just throw out a number and as Soul says their money is tied up until the auction ends...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 17 2005 9:26 AM EDT

"What? People can just put things up for sale in FS/WTB at a min bid, then change their minds after the sale's over? I don't think so... is that really allowable??"

Unfortunatly yes. A deal is not a deal until the items change hands...

Manta June 17 2005 9:37 AM EDT

Not only it is allowed, it also happened more than once.
And the present proposal is to introduce this exciting possibility also in auctions.

QBsutekh137 June 17 2005 9:56 AM EDT

"Exciting possibility"... *laugh* The sarcasm drips from my screen!

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] June 17 2005 1:07 PM EDT

There is a big difference between FS/WTB threads where the auctioneer has a hidden minimum bid in mind, and them being asked to actually quantify that hidden minimum at the inception of the auction so that their auction will sell. Keep in mind that they are paying "at the time they make the auction" just for the service of being able to make the auction. Hell, they could even be charged EXTRA just for using the hidden minimum thing.

Manta June 17 2005 3:41 PM EDT

Yes, Verifex, it does make a difference for the seller.
However, for the buyer's point of view, there is no difference between a person in a FS/WTB forum that does not sell for his stated min bid, and an auctioneer that does the same: in both cases, it is VERY annoying.
To make my point clear on how annoying this is, it is akin to bidders retracting; only more so.

Moreover, sellers pay also to post.

On the other hand, giving the possibility to pay for the ability of making people angry could be a good idea. However you can do the same using chatmails and posts, and it is even free.

Phaete June 17 2005 3:51 PM EDT

When you set up a minimum bid, but don't sell it at that price, i consider that false or misleading advertisement.

The commercial world seems to think it's normal practice for maximalization of profits.

I guess that it fits a specific buying audience, however, i'm not one of them, and i think the majority isn't either.

The eBay test actually proved that a lot of buying individuals would think the same as me, and rather go for a sale with visible realistic minimums.

Just my 2 eurocents :)

LumpBot June 17 2005 3:54 PM EDT

I don't like "hidden minimum bids" for one simple reason. The reserve is unkown so I feel like it doesn't matter how much I pay, I won't come very close to the real price. Also it will be frustrating to keep your money on an item for 3 days and then be outbid by no one.

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] June 17 2005 9:56 PM EDT

Personally I think its silly to place bids on items that are going to be in auctions for 3 or 4 days if you aren't taking the BIN. Why trap up all your money? Especially on high ticket items. I don't really see how this would change that reasoning much at all.
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