Tats and BA buying (in General)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 9 2005 1:14 AM EDT

Having recently discovered that slapping a minion type tat on small char
can give even better rewards than having a real decent char with the same
tat, I set about to up some farms and buy some BA while still making enough
money to pay my debts. BA costs for 10k (mpr) chars are cheap as can be, and rewards for a 30k (pr) char can be quite decent (avg 100cb maybe). This all leads up to my point, BA buying costs should be tied to PR, not mpr. This leads to my stupid suggestion. Eliminate buying BA before fighting, have every additional fight after you hit 0 cost whatever your PR dictates. No problems with folks unequipping and buying BA, no more silly little chars buying BA and making money and XP for doing so.

Thanks for letting me rant...

[T]Vestax July 9 2005 2:17 AM EDT

1. PR is to volatile. You can raise it too high accidentally with a weapon or armor piece. This is particularly easy with renting. It will particularly be just bad for anyone just starting the game. It is bad enough the tutorial tells them to rent right away, which hurts their rewards most of the time, but now you want to permanently hurt their BA cost too? And if you allow for the cost of BA to be adjusted regularly and allow it to go down, well then you leave open room for a lot of abuse.

2. The current VPR fixes this problem to a small extent already. Why do you think people using this trick are now all of a sudden spending there xp. The BA costs are tied to VPR now and so are the rewards. This means they might easily get up to par with the tat's level. But after that they need to start getting some sort of strategy.

This fixes little and breaks a lot of stuff. However, I do sympathized with you since I have seen first hand the difference in growth between my mentees based on whether they use a high level tat or not. I just feel that BA costs is not the place to attack your problem.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 9 2005 2:23 AM EDT

You missed my point, by forcing BA buying at the time of the fight, you eliminate the whole unequipping problem. This is mostly about it being too easy to retire a main char and swap tats onto a mini char and buy BA at the cost for a 5k (mpr) char, while having a 40 or 50k (pr) char gaining you rewards.

Jason Bourne July 9 2005 2:30 AM EDT

im telling you, the way to fix it is make the tattoo only be effective up to your MPR. i hate to do this, but just like 4 years ago when all you kiddies played pokemon, you had to have all the badges before you could use a higher guy, it should be the same way with tattoos.

just think of that 500k fire familiar as a level 90 Charizard. you have to have all the badges (mpr) to be able to use him. makes sense to me...

QBsutekh137 July 9 2005 2:33 AM EDT

I am seriously inebriated (no arson).

Yes, novice, you might could get away with this once. But aren't there various and sundry PR checks in place from there on to make sure you can't keep getting away with this "bait and switch"?

Yeah, GPV, you may have missed his point. I can't believe it myself. You are gold, dude. Then again, I'm drunk.

[T]Vestax July 9 2005 2:42 AM EDT

Yeah, I overlooked that I guess. Silly me. I must be drunk as well. :)

QBsutekh137 July 9 2005 2:45 AM EDT

Don't blaspheme. You're gun-proof, dude. Come on, get serious.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 9 2005 3:30 AM EDT

correct me if I'm wrong, but as long as BA buying is based on mpr not pr, it will be easy (and profitable) for clanners to drop back to a farm with a huge tat.

[T]Vestax July 9 2005 4:13 AM EDT

Alright! I'm must be sober now. The problem with making BA bought at the time of fighting has one of two problems. Either A) the person must confirm a purchase of BA every time they want to buy one BA or B) there is no warning and people just need to slow down and recognize that they are now spending a lot more money then just healing cost in order to fight.

The A) option is annoying to say the least. Who wants to confirm BA purchases several hundred times a day. It's hard enough just using it at times. A solution might be to give a warning the first time you pass under 0 and to stop there after. But this still means that while buying all your BA you get a warning every 10 minutes because of refresh taking you up above zero, which is still annoying.

The B) option just doesn't jive with how people play at all. Most people just start clicking away until that allowance exceeded page comes up with all the little goodies one could do to pass the time. People will be complaining over and over again that they keep buying BA when they don't want to, say maybe waiting for crazy xp and cash times.

I don't want to sound like a nay sayer who's sitting here thinking of negative things to say. It's just that when I heard the idea, maybe the first time or maybe the second, I felt like something wasn't right. This doesn't exclude PR being a factor in BA costs as being a good idea, this just rules out a decent way of implementation as far as I can see.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 9 2005 4:18 AM EDT

You raise a good point gun, I had thought a bit about folks being perturbed at spending extra accidentally, but figured it wouldn't happen more than once.

Maybe simply a check box on the main page, but now I've completely lost any chance of getting anything like this implemented, since more code == less chance of implementation.

[T]Vestax July 9 2005 4:23 AM EDT

I sorry novice, but I'm sure there are other, more doable, ways to nerf famil... *cough* I mean to fix the issue.

OneSeven July 9 2005 6:43 AM EDT

I think SoulCalibur may be on to something - if a low mpr char couldn't use/couldn't get full benefit out of a high lvl tat, then this problem (and some others) would be fixed. I know I'm still a newb, but from what I've seen there are a number of ways of exploiting the advantage given to a low mpr (especially newb like myself with NUB) char with a huge tat.
One could stretch this even further to include weapons/armor - perhaps there could be certain pre-requisites for using some things in the game. I think that this could help level out the battle-field a bit & make it a much fairer game overall

Just my 2c.
(sorry if this is a bit off-topic)

OneSeven July 9 2005 7:10 AM EDT

Just to add to the above - I believe that this would also provide more incentive (not that it's really need off course :P) to keep playing, more goals to aim for & more of a feeling of achievement.
"Cool, I can equip an Axbow [40x10](+12)!"

I realise that this would of course make the rental market a LOT different, but I think that it would be worthwhile.

Another 2c

[T]Vestax July 9 2005 10:50 AM EDT

As far as SoulCalibur's idea goes, weapons and three of the existing tattoos already are restricted to effectiveness do to your minions MPR. ToA, ToBF, and ToE are only better at higher levels when you char is in higher levels as well. So this is not needed for any of these oneseven. People already go, "oh cool I can get much higher NW items then before!"

Only the Familiar tattoos are unrestricted by your MPR in potential and so only they need to be capped as SC wants it. Simply put they are not items, they are minions and that is why this is so.

maulaxe July 9 2005 3:04 PM EDT

in option B above, the better way would be to warn you once, and then after that factor in the cost of the BA point into the battle rewards. You are awarded $-[54] and your Minions receive 35 exp each.

with brackets or somehting to make it different at a glance.

dunno how that would work for store visits though...

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 9 2005 3:11 PM EDT

beautimus maulaxe, I don't see any gaping flaw at all with that.
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