Timing of attacks revisited (in General)


Yohan July 15 2005 11:20 AM EDT

I know that this was discussed before and I really did search through June and July threads trying to find it but alas no luck so here it is again.

Round 1 of melee went as follows.

Tank fractured Balthazar's familiar [12424]
Tank draws strength from his weapon! [6562]
Tank pulverized Balthazar's familiar [9881]
Tank draws strength from his weapon! [111]
Balthazar's familiar takes damage from his own Fireball (17404)!
Balthazar's familiar's Fireball hit Tank [4594], Herbie [7796]
Tank Guardian Angel smote Balthazar's familiar (2756)
Mage Guardian Angel smote Balthazar's familiar (1656)
R.I.P. Mage R.I.P. Balthazar's familiar

Now Herbie is a COC mage who was killed in this round.
Why then did he not cast any DD?
From my understanding all attacks take place at the same time or did I miss a conclusion to the contrary?

Please enlighten me as I am probably missing the obvious.

Thanks

*I had to change my characters to Tank and Mage to get this past the spell check :(

RAMPAGE July 15 2005 12:27 PM EDT

COC doesn't cast until the second round.
Even if he lived he wouldn't have cast it in round 1.

RAMPAGE July 15 2005 12:33 PM EDT

Opps just checked spell descriptions COC doesn't cast until 4th round.

Yohan July 15 2005 12:37 PM EDT

3 ranged rounds.
4th round is 1st round of Melee attacks as stated above.

AdminJonathan July 15 2005 1:28 PM EDT

most likely explanation: you're having trouble counting rounds

different people understand "mostly simultaneous" to mean different things and get confused in the process, but the bottom line is, any minion alive at the beginning of a round will get to attack if he has a valid method of doing so

Yohan July 15 2005 1:45 PM EDT

Well normally I really do have problems counting that high. However, I had 3 rounds of attacks in ranged from my archer. So I am fairly confident that the first melee round should have allowed my COC mage to attack. and the above was a copy/paste with changes only to names. My COC mage clearly did not attack and as you can see was killed in that round so I assume that he was alive at the beginning? In fact his GA did work that round just no DD spell cast.

AdminJonathan July 15 2005 1:55 PM EDT

the other possibility is that you killed your own minion before it was his turn :P

Yohan July 15 2005 2:09 PM EDT

Well my tank should not have done that. (the only other attacks I made) The Fire Familiar was my opponent and he had cast only Ablative Shield enchantments so no AMF backfire possible.

AdminJonathan July 15 2005 2:24 PM EDT

Balthazar's familiar's Fireball hit Tank [4594], Herbie [7796]

Yohan July 15 2005 3:10 PM EDT

Balthazar's familiar was my opponents attacks. I have a TOE.

chernobyl July 15 2005 3:14 PM EDT

Yeah, where's Herbie's CoC?? He was alive (got hit by the familiar) and this is a melee round (Tank pulverized..), and his GA worked. Herbie was alive to cast CoC and did not.

The only reason I know of is obvious....

Tank killed the enemy's last minion. Your minions ceased attacking because the battle was over and you won.

[T]Vestax July 15 2005 3:31 PM EDT

As anyone can read, if Herbie died in this round then you would not only see a R.I.P. Herbie, you have also seen attacks made to Herbie. Our fearless Yohan has NOT given us the round of which he speaks. (/me begins to wonder how many people are actually reading first and replying second.)

If this is indeed a full round then you must concede that Herbie was dead already. He didn't attack, or get attacked, or die.

[T]Vestax July 15 2005 3:37 PM EDT

/me adds himself to the number of people that replies first and rereads carefully and feals like a shameful jerk second.

Undertow July 15 2005 3:37 PM EDT

Oh... you know.. it's a bug... which is what he's asking....

mchaos July 15 2005 3:40 PM EDT

Speaking of not reading before replying......

"Herbie" was replaced with "Mage" in most, but not all, instances in the play-by-play to pass the spell check. Herbie/Mage died at the end of the round, and was not killed by friendly fire, ergo, he ought to have gotten a shot off.

mchaos July 15 2005 3:43 PM EDT

Dont' worry GPV, I'm pretty high on that list too.

Josh [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 15 2005 4:38 PM EDT

Only explanation I can think of is that there were no more minions for Herbie to attack. Which makes sense since you're battles against Mage-o-matic are lasting 3 or 4 rounds.

Yohan July 15 2005 5:11 PM EDT

Well first off my battle was not described very clearly as to what minions belonged where so I will post it again.
Mage=Herbie

Enchantments cast were:
from me GA / VA / AMF
from opponent AS / AS / AS

Round 1 of melee went as follows.(following 3 ranged rounds by my archer/tank. beginning this round I have a tank and COC mage living and opponent has FF).

Tank fractured Balthazar's familiar [12424]
Tank draws strength from his weapon! [6562]
Tank pulverized Balthazar's familiar [9881]
Tank draws strength from his weapon! [111]
(this was my tank using a MH)

Balthazar's familiar takes damage from his own Fireball (17404)!
Balthazar's familiar's Fireball hit Tank [4594], Herbie [7796]
Tank Guardian Angel smote Balthazar's familiar (2756)
Mage Guardian Angel smote Balthazar's familiar (1656)
(opponents fire familiar and resulting GA response)

R.I.P. Mage R.I.P. Balthazar's familiar

The theory that there were no minions left to attack does not hold water for the same reasons. All attacks are said to happen simultaneously which would be BEFORE any deaths.

I am not trying to complain here just trying to understand. I have tried to recreate this but my stupid mage keeps living through the entire battle...

AdminJonathan July 15 2005 5:24 PM EDT

"The theory that there were no minions left to attack does not hold water for the same reasons. All attacks are said to happen simultaneously which would be BEFORE any deaths."

wrong

[T]Vestax July 15 2005 6:23 PM EDT

That there is no one left to kill is actually a perfect explanation. The game works through all of your attacks one-by-one and stops when either A) you out of attacks or B) all of your foes are dead.

Yohan July 16 2005 1:53 AM EDT

ok so I am wrong (dont tell my wife)

if the game works through attacks one by one then is there a specific order that I missed in FAQ?

defender first or attacker?

this is what I was hoping for explanation of my ignorance!

Karmic Mishap [Soup Ream] July 16 2005 2:08 AM EDT

Wow! FB fires before CoC because it's ranged or something!! Nerf that mo'!

[T]Vestax July 16 2005 3:36 AM EDT

The Attacker's attack (sounds redundant) and the Defender's attacks (sounds awkward) are performed independent from the oppositions attacks for the duration of a round. This means that my attacks on you will not mean that I'll stop you from attacking me within the same round.

What DOES stop the attacks from being listed is when all of the previous attacks that you performed within that same round has eliminated all of the possible targets. So the game goes through the lists of attacks you have (not caring what the other guy is doing) one at a time and picks the target for that attack at that very moment.

Why does this work that way, seems confusing you think. Well, if it didn't work this way then each attack would have it's target chosen before that attacks actually happen. This means that even if you first minion kills the opponents first minion, you would continue to beat it to a pulp with the rest of your attacks. Nobody wants this to happen. If all of the opponents are dead when it comes time for CoC, who do you expect it to target!?! The only people your mage can attack is your own guys and I'm sure you don't want to get draws just because your mage likes to put people on ice for kicks.

If you want a comparison then I'll suggest you pick of the first Final Fantasy game for NES and see how annoying it is when your guys do nothing cause you told them to attack someone that was dead from another attack. Then pick up one of the modern RPG's (take your pick) and then you might see how it's not very different then CB. When it's dead, your guys move onto the next monster, then when all the bad guys are dead the battle ends, your characters don't sit there and continue to swipe at thin air.
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