ToE, TBF changes (in Changelog)

AdminJonathan July 22 2005 11:56 PM EDT

ToE: increased aura to 1/3 of the full effect (was 1/4)

TBF: evasion bonus now equal to ToA's pth bonus at the same level

Relic July 22 2005 11:57 PM EDT

Interesting change...

Synco July 23 2005 12:02 AM EDT


Relic July 23 2005 12:03 AM EDT

Thinking about the Change, ToE is now ruler over ToA and helps the huge Mages that already do massive damage through FB or CoC to be even more deadly by adding additional minions that get more endurance than before...

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] July 23 2005 12:04 AM EDT

sigh, what about ToA changes? =X

I want STR and DX for all minions, and HP to the wearer....\oo/

=) ToE is a bit strong again...=/

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] July 23 2005 12:05 AM EDT

glad to see the ToBF was fixed...=) Good change there.

Relic July 23 2005 12:07 AM EDT

/me thinks the TBF still blows :P

SaintMichael July 23 2005 12:15 AM EDT

TBF, evasion?! Bah

Quark July 23 2005 12:41 AM EDT

Hmm - I didn't think the ToE needed buffed quite so much. And this is coming from someone who finally got their ToE to 200k levels from base (back before the Tattoo artist, paying over a mil for it).

Quark July 23 2005 12:46 AM EDT

Added 5 or 6 folks to my favorites list.

maulaxe July 23 2005 2:00 AM EDT

TOBF + DB's + UC + HG might now be worth it...

Phaete July 23 2005 4:36 AM EDT

Very nice.
Thank you.

[T]Vestax July 23 2005 5:52 AM EDT

ToBF vs ranged combat (aside from MM) equals you live to see melee, more then before at least.

{CB1}Lukeyman July 23 2005 6:16 AM EDT

Thank you!!

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] July 23 2005 6:26 AM EDT

Nice change. :)

I have no idea how strong ToEs are at the moment so I can't comment on that one, but the TBF change balances things out a lot better.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 23 2005 4:58 PM EDT

Meh. If item/skill evasion stacking was changed back to the old way, it would be worth using with UC.

At the moment, it's not worth using for FB reducion, and it's not worth using for it's small melee splash.

It's only use is if you want to fill your tattoo slot on bumping your DB s...

And really, the added dex from a ToA will help you dodge blows a lot better than the extra evasion. Even if you're a mage. At 20 dex, those two automatic hit's from dexterity (because with evasion, you're trying to dodge physical attack, all of which come from high dexterity opponents...) will hurt. Extra dex will help cut those down, and you're DB s will still help versus pth. Plus Evasion won't really help...

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] July 23 2005 7:11 PM EDT

GL, I don't think he was trying to make it more usable...

I couldn't figure out why he'd want to bump up it's evasion of all things but finally decided this was just one of those long term changes to keep ToA tanks from becoming 'overpowered' because Evasion+DBs+TBF will be capable of getting higher than any PTH.

Besides, it's already a good tat, why would he want to make it more usable? =)

[T]Vestax July 23 2005 7:27 PM EDT

For those that don't understand why ToBF has evasion there are two reasons:

The first has already been explained, which is that the backlash damage only happens in melee, so the extra evasion gets you there by either dodging the arrows or at least by getting singles hits only... hopefully.

The second is that once in melee the backlash damage only strikes against the first melee blow the enemy hits you with an not on follow up blows in the same round. This is completely unlike GA in this respect. Evasion helps you cut the blows down to singles and therefore maximizes the damage you do with backlash.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 23 2005 7:29 PM EDT

MrC, drop the Evasion from your example. The skill does nothing when coupled with a decent sized pair of DB s, especially if the DB s are used with a TBF.

I understand the change. ToA + Weapon PTH / TBF + DB evasion. Problem is, physical attacks still get dexterity based hits, which the ToA helps, and the TBF does nothing to counter. So the power / usefullness / viability / whaterver you want to call it of a TBF in it's physical application is still sub par to a ToA.

Ah, but the TBF does other things! But this doesn't matter as the other things it does are still negligable.

It's not a good tattoo. In any way...

As for the FB reduction, a ToE with 4 minions does a better job...

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] July 23 2005 7:31 PM EDT

GL, Evasion reduces Dexterity chance to hit by 1% for every point of evasion over your opponents weapon PTH, so in theory with a large enough evasion, this does in fact reduce DEX hits

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 23 2005 7:35 PM EDT

Slayer, Consider tattoos of equal size, and DB s the same size a the opponets weapon pth;

"ToA + Weapon PTH / TBF + DB evasion"

ToA has equal pth as TBF now gains Evasion.

The upgrade cost of DB s (unless they've changed from CB1) is equivilent of the pth upgrade cost of the largest melee weapon/s.

In essence, each cancel each other out.

Apart from the two ToA boosted dexterity hits...

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] July 23 2005 7:49 PM EDT

True, GL. However a mage can spend a lot more money on DBs than a tank can spend on weapon PTH.

Tanks spend money on armor (could be a lot of money, or not so much, depending on if your tank has a ToA or not) And money must also be spent on 1-2 weapons, but not only that, they must spend money on "X"s as well as "+"s! :-P

Mages...what do they spend money on? A few points slapped on a CoI or Corn, but you can only take those so far. AC is not an option for a mage, as they will never have enough AC using mage gear to justify spending money. So...all that money a mage team earns goes into to two main things...Buying BA, and none other than our little friends, DBs :-P

[T]Vestax July 23 2005 11:08 PM EDT

Weapons must be concerned with the 'x' as well as the '+' when investing in their weapons. And spite '+' often being so much cheaper then 'x', I see a lot of people pumping the money in to damage instead. I don't see how it could be so hard to get DB's above the opponent's '+', unless you are investing your money more into something else.

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] July 24 2005 12:14 AM EDT

"And spite '+' often being so much cheaper then 'x', I see a lot of people pumping the money in to damage instead."

Wait a few months and see if it's still like that...
I'm sure most people who played CB1 will tell you that when characters start getting absurd NW and huge PRs the + becomes very important, and the x really does hit a point where you just can't afford to keep increasing it which just adds to the importance of the PTH.

GL, as for TBFs being no good, you're wrong on that. ;) But this change doesn't help them all that much, evasion is pointless in the lower levels and even in the mid levels the other tattoos offer more useful things than the evasion TBFs give. Thankfully they don't only give evasion though. :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 24 2005 4:04 AM EDT

:) For the purpose of this comparison, I was ignoring Str weapon X. Sure, in the grand sceme of things a Mage team will generate more cash to spend on their DB s, as the Tank will have to pump the X and possibly use two weapons, but with non linear upgrade costs, this begins to even out over time.

Until, as MrC has said, X become prohibative to pump and people shott for +225 to get as many hits per round as possible.

As for spending cash on armour, both the minions being discussed here are using a Tattoo. ToA and TBF. Neither are going to be able to spend much on the other armour slots.

Oh, and the TBF is not a "Mage" tattoo. A tank (or UC as was mentioned above) might want to use one, if it's any better.

MrC, by not being good, what I mean is bar one instance (using it to suck up freindly fire FB damage), using any other tattoo will be better for you. Even if you could give me another example where it would be better to use a TBF then any other tattoo, it ranks as "Not really any good at all" because it has only a couple of specialist applications. All the other tattoos are more 'powerful' than a TBF.
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