Forging, Camping, Economic Blender. (in General)

Chocolate Thunder September 12 2005 9:46 AM EDT

Now that all rares are spawning in auctions and camping is abolished, I've been thinking that Forging should be the new choice for the Economic minded individuals. But its not really feasible as is. Some changes I thought of that may help out the forgers...

A) Increase the amount one can forge per BA.
B) Slow down or abolish the Blacksmith (the new camping is a nice enough money sink, don't think we need the BS as well). This would allow forgers to charge prices closer to 100% NW.
C) Decrease the forge charges from 20%.

Don't really know how feasible any of those ideas are, i've never been real swift with the economics of the game.


WeaponX September 12 2005 9:51 AM EDT

good idea but pointless... you can't keep up with USD

CoolWater [Superheros] September 12 2005 9:51 AM EDT

Can't abolish blacksmith for the reason that some people doesn't like waiting for days to have their gears forged.

Chocolate Thunder September 12 2005 9:53 AM EDT

That'd be the reason for speeding up the forgers. Plus it would make high NW items easier to sell *grumble*.

Maelstrom September 12 2005 9:55 AM EDT

Did you forget that not all items are forgeable?

Derek September 12 2005 9:56 AM EDT

How about giving the top economic clans a bonus to forging similar to the way bonuses are given to normal clans?

TrueDevil [AAA] September 12 2005 9:58 AM EDT

Yes, I think forging is somewhat really crappy right now. Fighting and then put the weapon/armor you want to upgrade in blacksmith is much profitable than forging it yourself. I've tested this before with CoI, I don't really remember the figures, but from what I remember forging CoI is not worth it, not even when you're forging it for yourself.

CoolWater [Superheros] September 12 2005 9:59 AM EDT

for weapons with very high NW you'll still need days to forge.

Chocolate Thunder September 12 2005 10:02 AM EDT

Maelstrom, that'd be easy to fix.

Derek, not a bad idea.

Devilord, yep. That's my point.. forging is slow and one is capped to the profit they can make... why pay 90% to a forger when you can pay 100% and have it done in 4 minutes.

Megaman, this has nothing to do with USD one way or the other.

Chocolate Thunder September 12 2005 10:04 AM EDT

Coolwater, why do you think it shouldn't take days to forge? Also, i'm not necessarily saying the BS should be removed, maybe just slowed to give people more of a choice. Between "now, Now, Now" and a forger.

WeaponX September 12 2005 10:08 AM EDT

why forge and not get MPR for less cash than USD can get. while that person with USD is still getting MPR. that is why camping was a needed balance imo. a good camper could earn alot of money more than USD could get. he did sacrifice MPR but that was the tradeoff

QBOddBird September 12 2005 10:44 AM EDT

how did you get USD into this, Megaman? I for one don't spend a dime on this game. I'm a college student. I CAN'T AFFORD TO. So, for the sake of those of us who don't chuck cash at a game, leave that out of the topic, please.

WeaponX September 12 2005 11:16 AM EDT

get to the top 25 bird and see if you don't feel as i do

QBOddBird September 12 2005 11:20 AM EDT

Since when did this thread have anything to do with getting to the top 25? Stay on target, MM. This is about making forging a little more worthwhile, not about protecting the high scores of those that are more free with their cash.

WeaponX September 12 2005 11:23 AM EDT

the point of making money is to get to the higher ranks oddbird. look at the big picture

Chocolate Thunder September 12 2005 11:30 AM EDT

Megaman, stop responding you missed the point entirely.

[T]Vestax September 12 2005 11:39 AM EDT

Oddbird, in the end money talks. Ranger and Mikel are examples of people who infused their teams with money. However, DAWG's team is almost entirely bought. He is the poster boy for buying your own top team.

Forgers often play for one of three reasons. 1) They want to be number one, however not as fighters but rather as the richest person in CB. (Even then having all that money can burn a whole in your pocket.) 2) They want to make real money. Like some of the old campers they will often sell their profits for USD. 3) They want to have the number one team. These people are actually fighters at heart and think that making money through forging and buying a character is the faster way to number one.

Starseed^Lure September 12 2005 12:11 PM EDT

Mega, I'm yet to figure out why you keep making the point that there is no way to keep up with USD. I wasn't aware that there *should* be a way! I understand that you're sour about the change, but it's time to move on.

At least stay on topic...

QBOddBird September 12 2005 1:26 PM EDT

I forge when I'm not trying to get a decent team to support. Or I have once or twice, but I haven't been playing CB2 long yet, so don't judge on that - I intend to forge quite a bit more later. However, the point is that I intend to do it for none of those reasons. I intend to forge simply to have a bit of CB2 floating around instead of having to struggle for it by fighting non-stop, and because I find forging almost more interesting than clicking "fight" over and over.

I don't want to be at the top. I don't have that kind of time to waste, and I certainly don't have the cash to waste.

I don't want to be the richest. It's a GAME, I play it for fun, not for a feeling of self-accomplishment.

I don't play for real money. If that were the case, when I bought Sign of Earth from Dark Elven Ranger back in the week I started, I'd have simply sold it for USD straight up.

However, I don't forge for two reasons right now - One, I have very little time to do so. I'm typing this very post between classes. Two, it wasn't profitable as it was in comparison to camping, and was a large waste of BA. However, with camping gone, I hope to see a greater demand for forging done to items, but as it is now the Blacksmith is simply more efficient - and at the time I did forge, not many jobs were being offered. I'm simply saying I agree with CT, I like those ideas and it would be wonderful if they actually occured.

'Sides, if any of you think you're catching Ranger, you're crazy in the first place. ;)

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] September 12 2005 1:31 PM EDT

What about a Forging Skill? The more you forge the better it gets. Get it high enough and you can truly compete with the BS.

AdminJonathan September 12 2005 1:32 PM EDT

Wow, Barron is a one-man FORS army!

"You can't stop him... you can only hope to contain him."

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] September 12 2005 1:36 PM EDT

If you want to give me an official FORS prefix to my name, Jon, I would be honored :). The ideas just keep flowing. I can't stop them! They have a mind of their own!

Maelstrom September 12 2005 2:06 PM EDT

Barron, Jon's points is that your "new ideas" have all already been suggested and rejected...

Have you actually read the FORS list?

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] September 12 2005 2:48 PM EDT

Maelstrom, the FORS list was written long ago. I think connecting PR to NW was ridiculed in the past as well. New changes made in the game can potentially allow FORS items to become viable ideas. I've always hated FORS for that very reason. I suspect that for every good idea to come up and be implemented there are probably 100 or so that are discarded. Many players besides me offer countless ideas and suggestions. Some of those ideas may spark another idea that may be better. Ultimately a viable idea becomes a change. I suspect that a few of Jon's changes come from ideas sparked within these forums. To complain about the offering up of ideas in these forums would be counter-productive. Noone expects that every idea is a good one that will be implemented. The ensueing discussion supports the idea's viability. One should never criticize a player's offering of an idea. What is more productive is the explanation of why that idea is good or bad. Stating that is was put in FORS a year ago doesn't accomplish that because of the constant evolution of the game's changes.

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] September 12 2005 2:54 PM EDT

Forging is stupid, and I'm not even sure why we have it still.

1. It's boring.
2. You almost get same or more money from fighting.
3. You can't get CP while forging.
4. You have a chance of messing up and losing all your work.
5. Whenever you forge an item it never retains any of that value for resale or is in any way unique from a blacksmithed item.

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] September 12 2005 2:57 PM EDT

Verifes, #5 is an awesome point.

What if a forged item was in some way "better" than a BSed item. That would make forging very lucrative and perhaps the nw value would be maintained or even go up.

Maelstrom September 12 2005 4:14 PM EDT

Barron, yes things have changed in the game, but forging has not. As stated in the FORS list:

Q: A forging skill would rock!

A: Skills are per-minion; forging is per-character. It doesn't fit, and it would be a bad idea even if it did.

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] September 12 2005 4:20 PM EDT

Maelstrom, what can I say. If that's what it says there then it must be an indisputable and irrefutable fact.

Maelstrom September 12 2005 5:43 PM EDT

I detect a hint of sarcasm.

Tell me, since forging is by character, how would you train a forging skill? On one minion? All minions? It simply doesn't make sense, and wouldn't fit in the game.

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] September 12 2005 5:55 PM EDT

Sorry about the sarcasm--really. I don't know. Maybe forging CAN be tied to a minion instead of the character. At the forge, you choose the minion that you want to be your forger and forge on. The price you pay, of course, is that you spend experience to train the forging skill on your minion, and you also tie up that skill spot on your minion. But, if you want to be a good forger, who cares. As your minion uses BA to forge, THAT translates to forging experience and your skill on your minion grows. Eventually, you can have a very capable forger. That is VALUE as well, because that character that has a forging minion can be quite valuable to sell later on too.

Maelstrom September 12 2005 6:04 PM EDT

Hmm.. maybe instead of a forging "skill", a character could have some sort of forge rating - the more you forge, the higher the rating gets (like the current stat), but also the higher the rating, the more efficient the character's ability.

Then again, I suppose that would be equivalent to gaining XP through forging, which could make forging more than just a dead-end job. I think this would make forging much more attractive, and maybe make Econ clans useful, in some way.

How about the higher the net worth of the item being forged, in relation to MPR, the more XP gained?

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] September 12 2005 6:11 PM EDT

Yes, that would make sense. I do like the idea of a forger rating actually. The difficulty of the forge job could be tied to the experience gained, just as rewards are greater as pr increases. The forge rating is tied to the character, therefore the character also reaps the benefit of being more valuable. I like it.

RAMPAGE September 12 2005 6:39 PM EDT

I think the only way Jon would do this is if he was bribed big time.
Has anyone here hit Powerball lately? =)

QBOddBird September 12 2005 6:41 PM EDT

Hm. What kind of a bribe would that take, Jonathan?

Derek September 12 2005 11:19 PM EDT

To expand on my idea before, why not include forging in revenue for economic clans and then give the economic clans with the most revenue a bonus to forging (say 20-30% for the top clan and scale down from there).

This would allows "good" forgers i.e. those who forge the most weekly to be better at forging than other forgers, without the need for a forge skill or rating.
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