Mage VS Tank (in General)

Untouchable September 23 2005 7:12 PM EDT

ok, we all know about the FB/CoC/MM nerf...does this affect mages greatly?

Can mages still overcome tanks...

Or do tanks now rule over the mages?

Mages, expect the worst :(

Jerk September 23 2005 7:16 PM EDT

well if you mean singlre tank vs single mage it really is all dependant on the mages gear and how he trained himself and vice versa. IF the mage has some good DB's and a big ToE then its possible as long as the tank doesn't have godly type gear and huge HP and other stats then the mage will own but if hedoes have good stuff and trained properly he will own mage in a few rounds.

Grim Reaper September 23 2005 7:23 PM EDT

Well overall Majority of tanks only do about 50k dmg per hit x 3 hits =150k. DD does around 500k by then. It even does more as it grows while tanks do a lot less.

So yes, ,mages beat tanks :)

! Love Barney September 23 2005 7:27 PM EDT

tanks are better. . . .

Mistress Reyna September 23 2005 7:28 PM EDT

grrrrrr my poor cuthbo look what you did to him :(

Grim Reaper September 23 2005 8:12 PM EDT

How are tanks better?

sure if you got ton of usd to spend, then they are great.

Special J September 23 2005 8:23 PM EDT

if you tank is only doing 50k damage per strike then you need a new strat or need to put your money into upgrades rather than more equipment.

Grim Reaper September 23 2005 8:28 PM EDT

well I'm just saying that is what I keep encountering, only thing in big damage is dd, otherwise it is tanks that only do 10-30k at most, I sometimes find a tank that hits for 50k or 100k

Jerk September 23 2005 8:29 PM EDT

well what about if the tank has a decent AMF trained??? then the 50k per hit would be plenty considering that the 500k DD would get sent back at mage for lets say 250k then after 1 rd the tank is gotten 400k HP off that mage and only 250k HP off the tank

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 23 2005 8:37 PM EDT

I'm with Mrwuss on this. If the tanks you face only do 50K a hit, that implies 25K before BL. I fail to belive any tank out there is now not using BL.

I was doing 25K a hit with UC. If a serious tank is doing that, well....

Grim Reaper September 23 2005 8:46 PM EDT

My current tattoo is level 562k x 4% so that comes out to a dd level of 584480

Against Spydah:
AMF level:I'm rubber, you're glue (814227)
Soldier's familiar takes damage from his own Cone of cold (149128)!

Against RaijinBull:
AMF level:ForsakenByGod (671368)

Soldier's familiar takes damage from his own Cone of cold (126870)!

That is no where near 250k :)

So it is pretty powerfull still.

After all that amf I still manage to do atleast 300k dmg

Special J September 23 2005 10:21 PM EDT

My current tattoo is level 562k x 4% so that comes out to a dd level of 584480

Wrong, your current tat level is 562k, naming it makes it gain 4% more XP per fight.

Relic September 23 2005 10:26 PM EDT

Unless an extreme amount of cb2 (really usd) is used to pump tank items i.e. weapons and armor, mages still own. I would get you-know-what handed to me from every mage on my list if I did not have extremely high NW items. Mages still are the more powerful of the two imo.

Jerk September 23 2005 10:31 PM EDT

well yes depending on skills trained a mage is very formidable ( so says a solo FB mage lol) but if a tank is trained big enough with a huge AMF then the mage is going to get owned. The tank doesn't have to deal large amounts of dmg basically he can sit back and let the mages ever increasing per round DD spell take care of the mage. I can say this because there are alot of DD casters out in CB land that has gotten to be on the receiving end of a 1.00 AMF put on them

Relic September 23 2005 11:30 PM EDT

I have an AMF well over 500K and there are mages who still hurt me quite a bit. I rarely get 1.00 on anyone except base decay mages.

Jerk September 24 2005 12:25 AM EDT

well my AMF is 675k ish and with a +5 corn it cast as a 750k so try the AMF 250k lvls stronger then you will see the affects of it as long as you fight ppl with some sort of a DD caster then you can pretty much rely on returning better than half of dmg back at them. So if a tank were to beef his AMF up to the same lvl as mine then I have no doubts I would get the bad end of my FB.

Starseed^Lure September 24 2005 12:54 AM EDT

I use both and I can say that tanks are absolutely just as advantageous as mages. Well Heavy ac tanks certainly are. ;)

The damage reduction and therefor survivability of my tank is unsurpassed. He was more survivable than my mage even when my mage had a ToE. Additionally, while my tanks main advantage is it's excellent damage mitigation it will often out damage my mage; sometimes by a lot. I'd be weary to discount the tank, just as I would be weary to discount the mage, even after this change.

Dragon Slayer September 24 2005 12:58 AM EDT

from what ive been seeing with the different strats ive done is a very rock paper scissors effect even before the nerf mages beat TOA tanks, TOA tanks beat heavy tanks, and heavy tanks beat mages...

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] September 24 2005 1:03 AM EDT

It's a trick question really, when you ask if tanks or mages are better. Personally, all I have experience with is the single tank, and I must say that the single tank is far behind the single mage. Of course, my ranged weapon has only around 9.2 million NW, but by the time I deal him say 40k (4 hits at 10k, reduced because of ToE), the fireball mage will have dealt me 300k I'd guess. If I get to ranged, my x78 BoNE helps a lot, but a CoC mage makes that look puny. Heck, even a single FB mage makes my 100k swings look puny.

Remember, my results are for the single tank only. And there's exceptions I'm sure, but I just like to not be the typical ELBow tank.

Icewindvz September 24 2005 1:06 AM EDT

I will not say this is a mage nerf, by just simple lower the damage of DD to it's level, only made the AMF weaker, but not the DD itself. Therefore Jon just made the DD stronger unintentionally. ^_^`

Best wish

Starseed^Lure September 24 2005 2:56 AM EDT

If there's one thing I've learned it's that Jon is quite intentional in most changes. Especially when the math is so apparent. ;p

Grim Reaper September 24 2005 3:46 AM EDT

I don't mind a dd nerf, but I do mind my bonus being 30% lower.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 24 2005 4:28 AM EDT



Seriously dude, you've been a member since July 26/27. Your MPR is 426,934. *Sigh* two months and you equal/beat my nine month effort.

And you still have half (? If not more) your increased bonus left. How far ahead of me will you be at the end of it? In well under half the time I would have been playing.

QQ (Cry more)

Grim Reaper September 24 2005 5:08 AM EDT

It's just I was barely making it as it was trying to get to ranger, I did have only 3 months of NUB left when I started working on bunker character.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 24 2005 5:40 AM EDT

Wow. So you've not even been working on bunker for 2 whole months, and yet you still equal/beat my MPR...

And people STILL can't see this is problem? Really...

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] September 24 2005 6:07 AM EDT

My Single TOJ Tank, Elven_Kings

Score / PR / MPR: 472,569 / 227,297 / 157,633

Please reiterate why tanks suck so much more than mages without USD? I haven't spent a cent on this game, even bought supporter items with CB$ and my score:PR:MPR ratio is a damn sight better than most mages around my level.

Grim Reaper September 24 2005 8:59 AM EDT

Sigh, I will reiterate then:

Mages can do 300k dmg ez, tanks don't do that much damage, they tend to do something like 10-50k dmg a hit or even less. There are handful of tanks that used usd to get ahead, now those are able to dish out like 100k dmg.

My coc tattoo right now dishes out 400k dmg and will be doing even more as it grows.

Tanks on other hand will not be doing increasing dmg at the rate mages grow if they keep training dd. Oh and as far as toj goes, it is not that much of a threat, only thing it is good for is fighting against tanks as a wall with good endurance.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 24 2005 10:40 AM EDT

Tormentor, I'm sure you are mistaken. Take this for example;

Melkor, gashed Talhearn [88520]
Melkor, hacked Talhearn [101195]
Melkor, vorpal blade went snicker-snack! [81951]

All from one round.

Granted, this includes BL, but Shade is using a VB (which has little effect on me). If he ws using a Morg/BoNE/ELS/BoTh he would be doing even more damage.

Shade also has 2 minions, and a MPR less than me (366K). With MPR equal to me, especially on a Single Tank, Shade would be doing much more damage.

A tank that does 10-50K damage at your MPR is a very very poor tank...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 24 2005 10:46 AM EDT

For a comparison, here are some melee results of my 600K MM boosted by a small AG. Some of these faced AMF but I'm not posting this to work out average damages just to show you what DD does at my level compared to Shades melee hits...

Talhearn's Magic missile hit âııđņ [184224] Talhearn's Magic missile hit Čųŗðś [140465] Talhearn's Magic missile hit Čųŗðś [222274] Talhearn's Magic missile hit Jesova [260608] Talhearn's Magic missile hit Doiza [167097] Talhearn's Magic missile hit Doiza [147570] Talhearn's Magic missile hit Gang'sta [199773] Talhearn's Magic missile hit Wonka [180883] Talhearn's Magic missile hit âııđņ [211762] Talhearn's Magic missile hit Čųŗðś [234512]

Only once did I reach the same amount of damage Shade was dealing on me (around 260K damage). And you still want to claim tanks can't match mages?

Jerk September 24 2005 11:13 AM EDT

Ok here is a pretty comparable fight I am 660k MPR solo FB mage and he is 591k MPR solo tank. He cast AMF on me for.36 and this was the damage we inflicted on each other the first round of melee which just so happened to be the last.

ForsakenByGod takes damage from his own Fireball (27329)!
ForsakenByGod's Fireball hit Failure [245608]
Failure scratched ForsakenByGod [18605]
Failure draws strength from his weapon! [6336]
Failure scratched ForsakenByGod [47283]
Failure draws strength from his weapon! [14689]

Now if my FB can do almost 250k dmg even thru his .36 AMF and all he was capable of inflicting is 80k dmg approx. FB if I understand correctly doesn't inflict the amount of damage that CoC would. I am wearing a pair of DB's that are -35 more than my own boots and using a ToE thats 300k lvl weaker and no Corn (not that it would have had any affect besides raising my PR). Yes I am 70k MPR stronger so I had an advantage there but my FB completely annihilated him in melee which is supposed to be tanks specialty if I understand correctly.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] September 24 2005 12:34 PM EDT

lol Tormentor you know very little about a lot of stuff.

I do 25k+ with a measly x30+30 VB and my exp is split 4 ways between HP/STR/DEX and AMF, my TOJ almost always lasts long enough to get a few hits in which are 5-10k minimum sometimes nearly reaching my tanks damage (at my level that is far more effective than just being a wall).
I doubt Bast is using her TOJ solely as a measly little wall with endurance, granted it may not be able to hold up long enough to be hugely useful in attack up there but she is competitive enough for it to do just as good a job as any other tattoo.
I also compete with TOA tanks at my level so I suggest you learn about strategies other than a couple of clone strategies before slating anything about another.

Grim Reaper September 24 2005 12:57 PM EDT

zoglog you will end up in stalemates later on, your toj will not do enough damage to kill high hp opponents in amount of rounds required/limit set to. If we had unlimited rounds then sure it be pretty good. But when you end up fighting another toj..... might as well start eating some popcorn cuz toj vs toj is a very long battle.

And the blade Shade has is A Vorpal Blade [75x65] (+35) worth $5,532,428 owned by Shade (Ilúvatar)

He does 80-90k dmg to me per hit and only 2 hits happen against me, I do around 100k dmg per minion on coc splitting on him, it tends to sometimes go higher. He has ST: 380,663 DX: 309,620

My average damage i do is 300k but my Normal damage I should be doing is around 450k

My Nw for tattoo is 10mill, now compare that to minions that have same nw, they end up doing same damage or lower than dd tattoo. I havn't even begun to discuss mage dd since I don't like training coc on minions themselves, I preffer them generating AS which seems to be more productive.

I have encountered players with minions that do 100k dmg a hit but they won't go higher than that since they have to put in a lot more nw just to increase it a bit more. VB seems to be at its peak in upgrades now.

So in order for them to do same damage as me, they have to have same nw tattoo and add another several mill in nw to their weapons, so they have to have like double my nw just to compete, some even need more than that.

Too bad that Starkadhr Gudbrande has the highest vb but since he has low strength, he only does 40k dmg.

I think sefton did a study into why the vb does as much dmg as Blade of Thuringwethil, he compared the Blade of Thuringwethil which had like 20mill nw to a vb with only 6mill, the vb did as much or a bit less than Blade of Thuringwethil for like 3 times less nw.

Jerk September 24 2005 1:04 PM EDT

well out of curiosity what is your NW Tor

Grim Reaper September 24 2005 1:12 PM EDT


miteke [Superheros] September 24 2005 1:13 PM EDT

I'd say with the archery reduction, ToA nerf, and the DD nerfs, and the bloodlust enhancement, melee has become more important. A good thing I think. Too bad CoC was also nerfed - the Ice Familiar was almost impossible to use effectively as it was - though maybe with the longer battles the damage reduction won;t matter as much as I think it will.

Jerk September 24 2005 1:14 PM EDT

wow my ToE has more NW than your entire character

Grim Reaper September 24 2005 1:15 PM EDT

Oops sorry:
Net Worth: $11,516,954

Tattoo Net Worth:Stim Pack lvl 572,020 11,068,761

Tattoo level itself is 594901.1 after being named. Nw I think remains the same. The rest of nw is in armors
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