FB/CoC (in General)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 13 2005 3:11 AM EDT

Repost due to old thread being closed. There is some great insight in old thread (FB versus CoC).

"OK, Changed to reflect the possibility that CoC is 75% not 90%.

Round 1;
FB: 35 Damage ((100 x .7 (Ranged Penalty))/2)
CoC: 0

Round 2;
FB: 40 Damage (75 Total)
CoC: 0

Round 3;
FB: 45 Damage (120 Total)
CoC: 0

Round 4;
FB: 50 Damage (170 Total)
CoC: 75 Damage

(So, on the first round of melee combat, FB will have done 126% more damage than CoC)

Round 5;
FB: 50 Damage (220 Total)
CoC: 75 Damage (150 Total)

(FB is still ahead by 47%)

Round 6;
FB: 50 Damage (270 Total)
CoC: 75 Damage (225 Total)

(FB still ahead by 20%)

Round 7;
FB: 50 Damage (320 Total)
CoC: 75 Damage (300 Total)

(FB Still ahead by 7%)

Round 8;
FB: 50 Damage (370 Total)
CoC: 75 Damage (375 Total)

So by the fifth round of melee combat, CoC just out damages FB. By 1.4%

From here, CoC will put out more damage than FB."

Grim Reaper October 13 2005 4:49 AM EDT

One thing you are forgetting is when you place the impact of GA and AMF around and having more than one minion.

When that happens, coc is more effective because the coc minion/tattoo can finish off the enemy better than fireball:

Here is the scenario: Your team and enemies team have GA and or AMF
Fireball Scenario:
Minion A as the wall
Minion B as the FB
What happens here is that the wall becomes useless sort of because it will not be able to do it's full effect of doing retaliation dmg.And when it comes to enemy GA and or AMF casted upon your minions, in this case the fireball would try and dish out its dmg but it tends to spread its dmg across the board hitting all enemy minions and GA and or AMF will take out the fire minion quickly leaving your wall not being able to do much in the fight during melee.
Coc scenario:
Minion A as the wall
Minion B as the coc

The wall here would be the front line, anything hitting the wall will cause GA and or AMF to retaliate leaving enemy with less and less minions to allow coc to do more concentrated dmg.

So in conclusion: If you have 1 minion(that includes having fire tattoo laying around with main minion unless you doing something cleaver) your best choice is fireball, but if it is 2 or more minions plus tattoo then it is best to go with ice with having atleast 1 wall laying around.

It is one of the key things that works in my strat since my minions cause many minions to die in ranged leaving the dd tattoo on a death timer to kill asap.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 13 2005 5:06 AM EDT

Eh? This was purely a repost on damage comparison between the two spells. It doesn't matter about minion count.

But, I think it would be great to open a Single Mage Strat discussion thread. :)

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] October 13 2005 5:20 AM EDT

I know I asked for your opinions on DD, and these stats are interesting. - As good as they could be. In general though, I'm not so sure how useful they are.

About the only point that I see outlined by these stats is that they're different spells and require very different strategies. With such a difference in strategies. One on offense (FB... even if it isn't the main damage dealing minion, the FB mage should generally be very aggressive), one on defense (CoC... as you just showed, the minion has to last a long time. I'd suggest 10 rounds on average). With the changes needed from even the most 'simple' mage strategy, the single mage, you need to make a lot of changes between FB and CoC. Tattoos, armor, EO spells.

The point is, they're so different that their comparitve damage output isn't very useful.

In general anyway.

Although this has actually helped me out a lot with trying to figure out a new CoC single mage strat. - 8 rounds is a lot longer than the 6 I used last time.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 13 2005 5:31 AM EDT

:) That was my reason to post this MrC. You reallt do need a different playstyle to get the most out of FB or CoC. Johnnywas' been doing great with CoC now he's using multiple minions. FB is proabably better for a single Mage.

I started thinking about MM, but it does less damage to a single target than FB and loses an attack round. I'm not sure using it over FB is worth just the concentration of damage.

Grim Reaper October 13 2005 5:31 AM EDT

Well What I do agree with GL on is that FB does more dmg than coc if you do a comparison between two same level 1 minion team, fireball will win because it starts attacking first.

But as I said, with a wall around it becomes a very different strat, especially when it comes trying to win in certain amount of rounds which is because of amf around.

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] October 13 2005 8:08 AM EDT

"if you do a comparison between two same level 1 minion team, fireball will win because it starts attacking first."

You're assuming that there are no other complications...

As I said in my first post. The strategies are very different between the two. CoC is defense. FB is offense.
CoC being defense, you use AMF. FB, you use DM to help you kill quickly.

AMF tends to make it about even.

CoC is still better, because it benefits so well from added defense, and with mages the most effective place to put your money is into their defense. FB however doesn't get nearly as much use from a good defense as one or two extra rounds of doing damage doesn't make much difference.
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