What strat is better? CoC mage/AmF Enchanter or FB mage/ DM-AS enchant (in General)

Untouchable October 18 2005 9:50 PM EDT

So...which of the two is better?!
(no items involved)

CoC or FB?

and please post a logical explanation after :D

Adrian Exodus October 18 2005 9:52 PM EDT

no tats?

QBOddBird October 18 2005 9:54 PM EDT

depends on your strategy. FB if you want to kill them in ranged rounds, CoC if you want to hold out and then kill them a few rounds into melee.

Untouchable October 18 2005 9:56 PM EDT

nope no tattoos :]

Adrian Exodus October 18 2005 9:59 PM EDT

then like oddbird said,

but if the they had to fight the same oppenents i would say fb would have the advantage and be more likely to when more fights coc only seems to come in to play with good strat or good items, i think.

Maelstrom October 18 2005 10:02 PM EDT

If it's just a mage and enchanters, go with FB - it doesn't matter whether you kill your own E's in melee. In fact, you'd almost need FB, since without a tank, you wouldn't do any damage in ranged at all.

Heavy October 18 2005 10:03 PM EDT

If you can kill them in 6 rounds or shorter i would take FB.
If you can't then CoC might be better :)

How much stronger is CoC compared to FB ?
Is it around 25%?

Sukotto [lookingglas] October 18 2005 10:06 PM EDT

FB is better because it works in ranged

CC is better because it hits harder once you get to melee and doesn't have splash damage.


What is better, latex or acrylic?

QBOddBird October 18 2005 10:09 PM EDT

CoC is like twice as strong as FB. (approximately.) However, it takes it a few rounds to catch up to the FB damage - its best (my opinion) with something to the effect of a Wall to stop melee'ers and an E with straight up AMF. You just have to stay alive long enough to use it.

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] October 19 2005 1:12 AM EDT

If you aren't stupid, CoC.

If you are, FB.


CoC is better, but it takes a lot of fine tweaking to get it to work (it can be difficult to last 8 rounds or more consistantly).

FB on a single mage would lose to a good CoC single mage, but when we add in a wall CoC's edge is even bigger because they have an extra round or two each (while the wall is being killed) which benefits CoC far more than FB.

Then again, it's a losing argument for me to keep claiming that CoC is better. It is better, but FB is still more popular because it's simple.

[T]Vestax October 19 2005 2:36 AM EDT

CoC is the defenders spell. FB is the attackers spell. If you have a strong defense then CoC reveals itself as the more viable option. Multiple minion teams with ToE or lots of AC is in my opinion the ideal place to use CoC over FB. FB on the other hand is more suitable for smaller teams or teams that lack a good amount of defense. Therefore, if your shooting for the single minion route I would suggest FB. Yet, as Chuckles would say that is dumb. It's not dumb because it would be a bad strategy, its dumb because single minion teams are boring, lack strategy, and also lack well-roundedness.

Now don't get me wrong, there are plenty of situations where a single minion CoC mage will outperform the single minion FB mage. Plus you may want to notice certain relevant trends going on around you. For example, the recent increase in BL tanks have given rise to longer and longer battles overall. This gives CoC mage a much larger chance to do damage before the battle is over.

If you wanted to pit the two mage types against each other in a head-to-head match then you will find the results mixed. What spells you use isn't the only factor that matters. The proportions of xp spent in those spells and stats matter as well. As the two casters begin to have a higher HP to DD ratio the CoC mage begins to win more often. If the ratio starts to go down then you can imagine that the CoC mage starts to lose as it has a lesser and lesser chance of making it to melee rounds.

Grim Reaper October 19 2005 5:17 AM EDT

Just copy my strat and your character will do fine :)

Ok so to the point of why coc if more than 1 minion.

If you have more than 1 minion around then that means you will probably end up getting GA.

When that happens you will have to make best use of it. To do that, usually players will make their first minion a wall and let it take hits so GA can kill the attacker.
Coc comes into play and does its killing blow.

Now if you had fireball instead of coc, what would happen is your fireball minion would not be able to kill the enemy like coc would because the fireball would strike from 1st round of combat which means it is lowering enemies hp from beginning instead of being down to lower amounts from GA first.
Hence,you get coc being defensive spell/better than FB.

now if you only have 1 minion on your character then by all means go ahead and do fireball.

Grim Reaper October 19 2005 5:19 AM EDT

The above stuff I said is if the enemy casts AMF mainly.

QBJohnnywas October 19 2005 5:37 AM EDT

I know why my strat walks over most of the FB teams at my level. But if I told you I would have to kill you.

QBJohnnywas October 19 2005 5:46 AM EDT

But seriously - FB mage takes no major thought at all to make it work - you just build it up and off you go. You have to be aware that if you last longer than ranged FB on a multi minion team will kill itself with friendly fire. If that same team also has DM then it is very vulnerable to AMF.

CoC takes more work - some people say it only really becomes effective after 7 or 8 rounds but if you can make your mage last more than 5 rounds you stand a chance of winning. You have to use your brain to work out the best ways of surviving into melee. There are several well documented ways to ensure your mage is staying alive long enough; finding the best combination is the key to success with CoC.

FB mage is a good way of climbing quickly but as you get higher up the ladder fights last longer. Also because of it's power CoC, if used right allows you to take on opponents of a much larger score/pr, giving you access to larger rewards......
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