Request - Tutorial Update (in General)

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] November 25 2005 7:04 AM EST

It really needs it.

How many newbs get into chat and ask why they're losing, you go to check their character and they have all exp trained into DX or have rented a weapon far too big for their character?

I'd even write it up myself if need be. I'm sure there are plenty of others who'd be happy to spend twenty minutes getting it up to date. Or at least easier for newbs to understand.

The specific updates I'm requesting are:
1: Newbs should be told to train HP/ST/DX equally.
2: They should not be told to hire two minions, it's been proven a million times how effective the single mage strategy is. It's also the most simple. Train HP/FB evenly. That's all they need to know.
3: It should specifically tell them who their mentor is and give them basic information about the mentor system. Too many newbs miss the mentor chatmail show up in chat without a clue who's supposed to be helping them (I know there's supposedly a link at the top of the home page but you only have to be in New Players for a day or two to see that this isn't enough).
4: It should also be a little more clear on two points. I suggest in bold writing somewhere that it says "ST/DX will NOT effect the strength of direct damage spells" and "Using a direct damage spell will cancel out your weapons and any ST/DX you have trained".
5: A tip I've always considered most important for newbs is for them to keep it simple. All I'm asking is that on the last page of the tutorial it tells them to avoid getting more spells than they have to early on. Just stick to the basics until you have a better understanding of the game.

I'm also aware that a few of these points are already covered, but clearly not well enough. I can honestly say that I have not seen one mentee come through the tutorial on his or her first day and understand all of these 5 points.

This is not a difficult change to make. It's very useful and much needed.
Please can we have this updated.

bartjan November 25 2005 7:23 AM EST

The mentor system is for those, who do not show up in chat asking for help.
If a newbie asks questions in the room 'New Players', then please answer them, that's the purpose of that room.

PoisoN November 25 2005 1:40 PM EST

We could create a small newbie wiki guide?

Bootsanator November 25 2005 1:54 PM EST

i agree with MrChuckles. It wouldn't be that hard to throw a few of those things into the tutorial. I don't think anyone has a problem with helping out people in chat when they ask what is going on, but if they know more to start, then it is easier to answer questions.

Even if all of those questions are not answered, at least it should be overemphasized in the tutorial how important it is to look at the FAQ and the Wiki. These aren't auxiliary sources of information, they are major help tools.

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] November 30 2005 3:30 AM EST


I'm serious about this one. When I give a wacky suggestion I don't expect to be taken seriously, but with something like this.. what reason is there to not make this update?

1: There's no risk of this having any negative effect on the game.
2: It helps out newbs. I remember a lot of silly things, and one that I do remember is Jon saying somewhere that he didn't like to make changes to help idiots. Well this is the opposite, by the tutorial giving faulty advice, it hurts those who take the time to read it.
3: Ok, so it's not the highest priority... well, I don't know what is a higher priority right now. But let's say this ranks somewhere in the middle of the list. The simplicity of this change makes it that easy to do, how can it not be worth thirty minutes to do?

QBsutekh137 November 30 2005 10:23 AM EST

What about actually running an "integrity check" of sorts on a new player, and interjecting real-time interactive commentary:

"Your have dexterity and a DD spell trained. Remember, dexterity does not help a mage land more damage, and DD spells override wielded weapons."

"You have HP and STR trained, but very little DEX. Remember, dexterity is the key to dodging opponent blows and landing hits on your opponent."

"You are wearing a DCM. You are the weakest link. Good-bye!"

Maybe all the helpers who have been coding such cool stuff recently could help Jonathan out and build some scenarios? I am only talking about the very basic stuff: things I list above, don't fill every slot, don't wield a weapon along with DD, etc. Make the scenarios be minion by minion only...don't try to say stuff like "You appear to be running four tanks. This can be bad." That would be a lot of work. But analyzing each minion for the glaring inconsistencies would not seem to be that difficult?

Kudos, Chuck.

AdminJonathan November 30 2005 10:55 AM EST

Someone (Wonderpuff? Verifex?) suggested that, too. I think it's a good idea to do some kind of static checking on to display on the home or train page.

Dynamic checking during fighting is much, much, harder. I don't think cost/benefit there is worth it.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 30 2005 11:03 AM EST

The home/train page would be cool! Like the "Must train before you fight, you;ve got 1,000xp" message. :)

But more along the lines of;

"Are you sure you want to train Dex with a DD spell?"

"Are you sure you want to equip the whip with CoC?"

"Are you sure you want to put points into UC?" >;)

QBJohnnywas November 30 2005 11:06 AM EST

'Are you sure you want to wear that colour cloak with those leather boots?'

QBJohnnywas November 30 2005 11:07 AM EST

Oh, sorry it will be 'color' won't it; I forget to write 'American' sometimes.... ;)

QBJohnnywas November 30 2005 11:10 AM EST

Sorry off track there.

At the least these points of Mr C's should be in the Wiki; but also putting them into the Help might be worthwhile. Certainly Mr C's point 4.

QBsutekh137 November 30 2005 11:53 AM EST

I was thinking only during the tutorial or "new player" timeframe, but I guess home page warnings would work any time...

Definitely only done rarely... Maybe utilize the vast openness of the training page? Though I guess that would not have weaponry/armor viewable at the time...

Doc [girl power] November 30 2005 12:11 PM EST

I like the idea of a tutorial...but to be honest. Its like putting together something you buy at the store. The instructions get tossed aside. And are never read.

The home or training page updates or warnings to the player would be more efficient as its brought directly to their attention.

On the other hand...using the page updates...would that not push a character in a general direction rather than let them decide what they want to do themselves?
Believe me it would be 100 times easier doing it that way.

I took a bit of Flack with my post about the base character idea. Is this idea not similiar?

Why not let them choose when signing up...Mage or Tank.
Have a small amount of XP trained where it should be...hopefully they can catch on.


AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 30 2005 12:25 PM EST

The messages could only pop up until X amount of MPR, like the "Go train now!" one does.


As Doc says, we could have a NUB message pop up saying something like "If you want to get the most out of your NUB, you should really train FB". :P

Starseed^Lure November 30 2005 3:41 PM EST

I think someone should update the wiki saying that anyone can update the wiki and that that's the point of it.

sorry, couldn't help it. XD

Bootsanator November 30 2005 3:44 PM EST

i liked the tutorial; i learned the basics, but it does need revision...just a few basic things really (though by now, it could be fixed, considering i was new 3 months ago)

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] November 30 2005 6:46 PM EST

I remember when i signed up onto cb1 i was training stuff into DX and MM cuz i thought magic missle would be cool, but the tutorial *did* tell me i really needed DX trained, but i dont remember it saying the two were pointless together. Then Drudge, my mentor, =) told me what i should turn around.

Flamey November 30 2005 11:23 PM EST

i think this is a good idea. when i first started(about 1 month ago)i thought forging was a cool idea get my weapons stronger to kick butt. then i got told by dan that i shouldn't be wasting BA on forging when i still have my NUB and that i should be fighting.
so i think we should tell them that they have a NUB and it is very valuable and we should tell them not forge.
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