4 minion UC strategy (in General)
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
It hasn't been tweaked much because I can't afford to try it out just yet (hiring minions is way too expensive), but opinions would still be helpful.
50% of EXP in each.
20% in HP, 80% in AMF
VA maxed out. Wont be much EXP, especially considering I'm using UC. The rest of EXP goes into EC.
30% HP, 15% ST, 40% DX, 15% UC, less than 1% prot.
Equip: UC armor (GI, HGs etc) + Axbow.
My main question is; Would any tattoo work well on this character?
I really don't think so, but it seems like a shame to not use one. I'd like to use a Steel Familiar but that would still dilute EXP too much. ToBF is another option, but that would involve moving the meatshield to just in front of the tank, and thus allowing the enchanters to get picked off in ranged rather than taking hits for me in melee.
Any thoughts on how to improve this strategy would be appreciated. Thanks.
December 11 2005 1:56 AM EST
I would say you would need a TOA on your UC minion because you will be using up so much exp in UC that you would need the extra lift with dx and st... but this would hold you back also by not getting the gi bonus for you UC...
I have some UC stats for you if you are interested.... I will try to dig them up and send them too you it may help a bit... I have tried to figure out a way to work UC into an effective strat but I have been unsuccessful also... good luck
A ToE would work well, since the aura would diffuse the damage taken by your enchanter/meatshields, and in conjunction with VA would keep your monk alive long enough to push the needed damage through. A Steel Familiar would help in the much-needed damage dept.
Only thing I'm curious about is how a Steel Familiar would dilute xp any? No tats take xp away from your character, they get theirs seperately.
December 11 2005 2:25 AM EST
Exbow over Axbow. The Exbow will reduce damage taken and help you dish out more, whereas the Axbow only _might_ help your opponent miss, let you get in an extra hit, or cause your opponent to lose an extra hit.
Brandon, the ST reduction does minimal to lower damage taken. For example, if you double your ST, you will not gain 100% damage. You will gain more like 30%.
It works the same the other way, if you reduce your opponent's ST by 30%, you're looking at more like 10% damage reduction.
Whereas an axbow will either give you 100% damage reduction, no difference at all or some random amount in between, usually 100% or no difference though. I'd rather go with the axbow. Besides, I'm not thinking I have any hope of competing in damage output with opponent tanks, I'd much rather focus on DX.
DAWG, GI bonus is huge, plus is doesn't add much PR so it is going to get you doing much better against opponents of equal PR. Also I think my DX will be more than adequate without ToA. I guess we'll see how that works out though, and I'll keep the suggestion in the back of my mind. As for stats on UC... stats aren't my thing, they go in one ear and out the other, trust me, they're wasted on me ;) Thanks though.
Nightmare, ToE would be nice. But again, it dilutes EXP.
See, all the EXP it gains effectively goes into that minion. If I put the ToE on an enchanter. My PR goes up but most of the addition goes into that enchanter. If a 100k MPR character has four minions with the same amount of EXP, and is fighting 100k opponents. Then gets a ToE and puts it on the enchanter, his PR goes up to 120k and his fightlist should now also be 120k, but his tank is no bigger. Same deal with Steel Familiar. Now we decide which is more valuable, a big tank, plus big enchanters, or a steel familiar and small tank and enchanters. I need the tank to be big, the whole strategy is based around it.
That being said... I think I will be getting a steel familiar. Explaining that has given me a good idea. :)
How about the unloved ToJ
That was my original thought.
But you have to ask the question: what does it add to this strategy?
Unfortunately, very little.
yea, maybe try a relatively small one and keep instaing down so you get another minion for splitting but it doesn't dilute the tank too much.
December 11 2005 5:32 AM EST
Why not a RoS? Then you could use GS/Haste without worrying too much about DM. You could also put some low level weapons on those enchanters - hey or even a low level UC, then you could get some evasion on the whole team....
I tried out this very thing a few weeks ago and it worked very well at low levels. I don't know how it would work at later levels. But the fake tank aspect would mean that you could spread out more EXP into the UC weapon...
Johnny, I hadn't even thought of that.
I haven't got the time to spare right now to put much thought into it, but that is an excellent idea.
I'm certain that I'll be using an RoS now. - Unless of course someone wants to enlighten me about something better :)
Just one question. Why train HP on the first two enchanters? Without GA, that just become HP batteries for VA Tanks.
December 11 2005 6:08 AM EST
Glad to be of help! With the set up you suggest I'd put it on the EC minion and give that one the haste.
Alternatively you could just do AS/GS/Haste as your defensive enchantments with the AS boosted by the RoS. Then VA wouldn't be so necessary.
The biggest bonus from this would be the cheapness of it - you wouldn't need to think about any of the other bonus giving items, except maybe Elven gear perhaps.
In theory most tank teams wouldn't be able to touch you.
GL, the meatshield is a very useful minion. The first enchanter is my meatshield, designed to stop mages beating me, also there to protect the other enchanters from ranged attacks. I want those enchanters to make it to melee against tanks where they can block the most damage.
The VA is a setback, but I think it's an acceptable loss, especially when you consider that I will likely do more damage than they gain during those rounds.
The second enchanter has a little HP, basically to twist the knife against mage teams.
Johnny, I'm thinking more along the lines of ditching both EC's. Training GS on the first enchanter, haste on the third. VA on the AMF enchanter instead of some of that HP.
December 11 2005 8:19 AM EST
I think you can better train AS instead of HP on those two first minions. It'll still make them a meatshield and it will help your other minions as well. DM might become a problem though. About the tattoo, I strongly recommend some kind of DD familiar. You will only be doing damage with AMF and UC. Although EC and AMF will lower the damage done by your opponents as well, I think that won't be enough. UC is actually quite weak. A DD familiar might help you out.
December 11 2005 12:23 PM EST
if you really don't want to have a tattoo, you should at least get an RoE and put it on one of the minions. your UC tank couldn't wear it b/c of the Gi, but any of the others could, which would only benefit you in the long run
December 11 2005 1:38 PM EST
I have to agree with Independenz's advice - UC is definitely not strong enough to be your primary damage dealer at mid to high level - you need either a big DD, be it from a minion or a tat, or another big damage tank. UC is best for a combination of survival through ranged, and as a "back-up" melee damage dealer, in my experience.
If you don't use TSA/MgS, the HP on the first two enchanters won't make them meat shields versus mages. MgS is mutually exclusive of being an enchanter, so if you really want to train HP on them, give them both TSAs. Otherwise, leave them at 20HP and know they'll suck 1 round from FB (having it do 1/4 damage to you) and one round each from single target attacks.
Without Dex, Tanks will be getting 3+ hits on them in melee, and even 50% HP (without Dex + AC) will see the first mowed down in a couple if not 1 round.
I agree, meat shields are fantastic, but you need natural HP, AC and Dex and/or MgS/TSA depending on who you plan to stop with them.
"The VA is a setback, but I think it's an acceptable loss, especially when you consider that I will likely do more damage than they gain during those rounds."
;) With UC? Never. :P A BL Tank will outdamage you, and heal most of the UC damage you do to him from VA-ing the natural HPs of the Enchanters it kills each round.
I think EC doesn't do enough. But I was taken apart when I played a tank by a specific tank beating 4 minion all EC set up.
If you're thinking about a RoS and Johnnys suggestions, why not go for a 4 fake tank team? It's not been done because of expense, but how about 4 UC fake tanks?
something along the lines of;
1) UC + VA/GA
2) UC + GS
3) UC + Haste
4) UC + AS
Stick the RoS on the AS minion and use Gi's or TSAs on the others. Add in either AMF or DM to taste and pump UC to get as much evasion for ranged melee attacks.
I personally think a ToJ would do wonders to this strat. Stick him near the front. True he doesn't do much damage but he can juke and move all day long.
GL, first off one thing I should be clear about is my definition of meatshield.
I purposely call it a 'meatshield' rather than 'wall', it's a completely different minion, designed to do different things.
Yeah, yeah. I was waiting for you to pick on that remark about doing more damage than them. You're probably right, but I can always hope they fall over and have a heart attack or something before they strike the meatshield. I'm not sure that's ever happened before on CB, but I can still hope for it. *sigh*
And the four tank strategy... I'm relying on having higher stats (or at least, DX) than my opponents. Four tanks doesn't really do that. Besides, in the past I've complained on and on about people using two minions to do the damage that one should be doing, I'd be a bit of a hypocrite to try four ;)
Independenz/Barzoo Monkey, essentially UC is weak. Yes.
But I'm backing on being able to pick on the weakness in most tank strategies. Ideally I'd use a weapon myself, but hey, money doesn't grow on trees, I can't afford a big weapon. Besides, that's not interesting. UC is.
Bootsanator, it's not that I don't want to use a tattoo, it's just that none look like they have anything to offer (except RoS). Besides a setback, of course.
An RoE would draw more EXP away from the tank. - Yes, I know it doesn't take EXP away. But it gives a lower % of overall EXP to the tank, which is not what I want.
Novice, thanks, that adds lots to this thread. Couldn't have said that better myself, really. ;)
Monkchantatanks. lol, I love that word.
CupofJoe, yeah, but it's not short of meatshields as it is. Why add another and get a lower % of EXP going into the tank?
"I purposely call it a 'meatshield' rather than 'wall', it's a completely different minion, designed to do different things."
Sorry, I tend to lump all stopping type minions together. What do you want yours to do?
"Yeah, yeah. I was waiting for you to pick on that remark about doing more damage than them."
:P Wouldn't want to disappoint!
"And the four tank strategy... I'm relying on having higher stats (or at least, DX) than my opponents. Four tanks doesn't really do that."
I'm confused here, with four minions, and no elven gear or ToA you're not going to beat any tanks Dex other than another 4 minion UC tank. That's where you're using EC right? I thought about doing that on my 2 man team, but it reduces about 36% in str and dex? EC is too low. And your Axbow could be countered by thier Axbow.
"Besides, in the past I've complained on and on about people using two minions to do the damage that one should be doing, I'd be a bit of a hypocrite to try four ;)"
Hehehehe! Me too! I've been adamant about single minons, now here I am using a Tank/Mage duo!
December 11 2005 4:59 PM EST
"Independenz/Barzoo Monkey, essentially UC is weak. Yes. But I'm backing on being able to pick on the weakness in most tank strategies. Ideally I'd use a weapon myself, but hey, money doesn't grow on trees, I can't afford a big weapon. Besides, that's not interesting. UC is."
I totally agree. But the fact remains, that you'll need another source of damage, like a DD familiar, to be able to defeat most strategies. I even doubt that you'll be able to defeat those specific tank strategies with UC alone. :)
"I'm confused here, with four minions, and no elven gear or ToA you're not going to beat any tanks Dex other than another 4 minion UC tank. That's where you're using EC right? I thought about doing that on my 2 man team, but it reduces about 36% in str and dex? EC is too low. And your Axbow could be countered by thier Axbow."
Clearly we didn't know each other too well in CB1. I had an EC based strategy there and dominated. The ToA posses a slight threat, but I'd still back my character to beat most opponent DXs.
And the reason I liked Johnny's suggestion earlier was because it frees me up to use haste and GS instead of EC, both of which do the same for me as EC would except they're far more cost effective. :)
And the axbow is there specifically to counter opponent axbows. ;)
And Independenz, you've obviously forgotten who you're talking to ;)
*points to his name* MrC=Self appointed mad genius of CB
I'll get UC to do as much damage as I need it to do ;P
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