# Is UC(100) too good? (in General)

## YOUMarch 15 2006 10:57 PM EST

with my named MH +108 and 933,489 Dex after Barzoo's Axbow hits.
I missed twice (oftenly more)
AzN RiCe's blow was dodged by Sensei Boopadoo
AzN RiCe swung wildly at Sensei Boopadoo
Let's look at Barzoo monkey's Sensei:
DX: 241,488
Assuming with all boosts, his UC = 130 Max
Wiki Help:
Training this skill also confers an Evasion effect
equal to 1/3 of trained UC effect.
Evasion granted by the UC skill is
doubled during Ranged combat. My MH hits only in melee so my math says:
130/3 = 43.3 Evasion. (he doesn't use Displacement Boot)
Conclusion: my "named" MH +108 is loosing to a 43.3 Evasion?
Another Counter Math: my Evasion now is : (56) and Failure 's named MH is +64 with roughly same Dex. And he double hits me at least 2 times "every time"
What did I miss with (UC) and Evasion?

## QBOddBirdMarch 15 2006 11:01 PM EST

The Gi adds another 1/3, so it is 2/3 the effect. That could explain a lot.

## {CB1}LukeymanMarch 15 2006 11:11 PM EST

The pen is mightier than the sword young one

## QBBarzooMonkeyMarch 15 2006 11:12 PM EST

From my 24 hr battle log:

attacked by 15 opponents

Attacker Won Lost Drew Stale Win Pct Avg. Rds

The Slayers (Supreme-*{Fight Club}*) 93 0 0 0 100.00 8.4

## FlameyMarch 15 2006 11:20 PM EST

this is basically the same thing as a High lvl DD spell, it will keep growing, people will keep complaining.

as i said before tanks are stronger earlier on, until the upgrade cost gets to high.

and barzoo makes a point if your winning then dont complain.

## YOUMarch 15 2006 11:26 PM EST

I am not complaining. I was just trying to understand how UC / Evasion works. As you see i am trying to build defensive line with Evasion.

## FlameyMarch 15 2006 11:28 PM EST

ah, i see, sorry, now i understand what you mean

## Vaynard[Fees Dirt Cheap]March 16 2006 12:30 AM EST

I still think something is screwy with UC as well. I can't fight Dogs of War anymore- we always stalemate. GI's do seem to double the evasion, but it still doesn't feel right.

Last fight, I missed Sensei with my ranged shot, and then went 3 for 20 attacks in melee. That is with 880k DX and a +80 BoNE. From this I can only guess he must have near or over 80 evasion, as well as a significant total DX advantage.

## sssimmoMarch 16 2006 12:36 AM EST

2-Handed weapons "+ to hit" are not as effective as a 1-handed weapon at the same level. So +80 is not necessarily +80 right? More like an effective +55.

## Vaynard[Fees Dirt Cheap]March 16 2006 12:45 AM EST

Ugh, we have talked about this time and again. Check the changelog. Nowhere does Jon say 2 handed weapons lose PTH. It mearly says this:

"+ 1H melee weapons now have a 50% higher base chance-to-hit than 2H weapons
+ (1H base to-hit went up; 2H base to-hit went down)
+ this affects how easy it is to get double hits from DX as well"

If memory serves correctly, originally with a weapon you had 50% chance to hit with equal DX and no PTH. Now, I'm guessing it's 25%. I guess I should check this. Tests could probably confirm. Anyone know / wanna help shed info?

## QBJohnnywasMarch 16 2006 3:33 AM EST

UC, against tanks, is essentially a defensive skill. The damage output is good but nowhere as good as you get from the big weapons. And that's because a lot of your investment goes into defense. So why shouldn't it work as well as it does with the investment BM has put into it?

GL explained pretty well why it works as well as it does in the following thread:

http://carnageblender.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001ib5

## AdminQBGentlemanLoser[{END}]March 16 2006 3:58 AM EST

Thanks Johnny! :) BM has kindly provided us with his stats in another thread.

Natural UC: 418,900
Dexterity boosting items: +33%
Natural Dex: 241,923

Total UC (without items): 557,137.

That means UC is providing an Evasion and Defensive Dex of: 185,712

Total Defensive Dex: 427,635.

Evasion of 100K is (40), I suppose 185K is around (50).

The Gi gives another 185,712 worth of evasion. I don't know if this stacks as (50) + (50) = (100) or if the levels stack like enchantments 185,712 + 185,712 = 371,424.

Anyone want to hazard a gues at the effect of 371K Evasion? Maybe (70) odd?

But, all this being said, you do have more dex and possible pth left over (in melee, the Evasion granted is boosted in Ranged), so maybe there is something off?

## AdminQBGentlemanLoser[{END}]March 16 2006 4:01 AM EST

"Ugh, we have talked about this time and again. Check the changelog. Nowhere does Jon say 2 handed weapons lose PTH. It mearly says this:

"+ 1H melee weapons now have a 50% higher base chance-to-hit than 2H weapons
+ (1H base to-hit went up; 2H base to-hit went down)
+ this affects how easy it is to get double hits from DX as well"

If memory serves correctly, originally with a weapon you had 50% chance to hit with equal DX and no PTH. Now, I'm guessing it's 25%. I guess I should check this. Tests could probably confirm. Anyone know / wanna help shed info?"

Originally, equal dex gave you 50% chance to land a single dex based hit with whatever weapons you use.

After this change, I asked Jon if it was a straight 25%/75% split for 2H/1H. Jon siad it wasn't. :)

Ranger has also noticed that weapon pth doesn't seem to be granting extra hits until around +50 or so, so the Morg in question could only be around +58 for hitting, easily reduced by the Combination of UC Evasion and Gi.

## QBJohnnywasMarch 16 2006 4:04 AM EST

Forgetting the numbers for a moment, Sensei is a Martial Arts Master. Why shouldn't he be untouchable!

## Tenchi MuyoMarch 16 2006 9:18 AM EST

Exactly! If movies have taught us anything, it's that the martial arts masters can only be touched by someone of greater skill! If you're not as skillful, he'll just play around and make fun of you ^_^.

## YOUMarch 16 2006 9:33 AM EST

For a more important note, as far as damage to enemy minion (like UC does) is not required. Training all UC with full gears better or Training all Evasion is better for evade only purposes? I know Barzoo wanted to explore UC, The highest Evasion in game is still quiet, my Evasion is only 213k(57) too low to compare with Barzoo 's UC effective. Help please.

## QBBarzooMonkeyMarch 16 2006 9:34 AM EST

Yes, exactly, what they ^ said! :)

Defense, i.e. having a minion that no one can touch with physical attacks, is my entire motivation behind developing a big UC tank with boosted DX. I could see the "overpowered" complaints if Sensei was wiping the floor with everybody, but he doesn't - damage is way too low compared to magic and big weapons. With the exception of Vaynard, who has to settle for stalemates, I get beat handily by all the "really big kids".

And speaking of magic, the only reason he even survives fire, ice and MMs is because of the WonderDog's AMF, and the fact that he is behind the Anti Magic Tank. Low damage and extreme vulnerability to magic attacks are a pretty hefty trade off for big evasion skills.

So, if the basis for "UC is overpowered" is merely "I can't hit that minion with my big Morg/BoNE/BTh/ELB", it is one player's humble opinion (that would be me) that you need a little more to go on for a valid argument...

:)

## QBBarzooMonkeyMarch 16 2006 9:44 AM EST

I might have posted this before, but let me address big evasion a little! Spirit Of The Night has the biggest evasion in the game. I can beat Spriit of the Night in 10 rounds. How I do it is the interesting part:

None of my minions can it him physically for the first 9 rounds. He doesn't hit me either. But my decay hits every round, and finally, in the 10th, when he's almost gone, Sensei Boopadoo hits 1 time with the death blow.

Again, can something primarily defensive ever truly be considered "overpowered"? Or is big UC just a good tool I've used to try to bring a good offense/defense balance to my character?

## YOUMarch 16 2006 9:46 AM EST

the only way i can beat him is with Guardian Angel. I can't touch him at all.

## AdminQBGentlemanLoser[{END}]March 16 2006 9:57 AM EST

"Training all UC with full gears better or Training all Evasion is better for evade only purposes?"

Evasion all the way.

UC + Gi is at best 2/3rds Evasion in melee (It could be 4/3rds -pth for Ranged, with 2/3rds Dex)

If all you want is defense, pump Evasion.

## YOUMarch 16 2006 10:04 AM EST

that's what i thought as well. My math says : barzoomonkey's UC 418k (100) should give roughly (67). my 213k Evasion with full gears = (66) Evasion. It must be definitely cheaper. However, personally i just want to double check 'cause i think Gi's give 1/2 not 1/3 (which leads to 5/6 )

## AdminQBGentlemanLoser[{END}]March 16 2006 10:47 AM EST

Gi's give exactly the same Evasion (effect) as you get from the UC skill. I just don't know how they stack together.

If you have 300K UC it would give 100K Evasion which is (40) (or 41..). Wearing a Gi would give you another (40).

It might stack to (40)+(40) or 100K+100K (about (50)?).
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