No, it wasn't the amulets.

The _big_ change is the new weapon damage formula.

Briefly, if damage for weapon stats X and strength Y is N, then damage for 10X and 10Y is now 10N, for any X, Y, and N.

Accordingly, weapon damage enchantments now cost a constant amount to increase one x. The constant amount differs slightly for each weapon but is usually between 6000 and 10000 per x. (Less for ammo.)

Range damage, as usual, is a little trickier, but the same principle is applied there as well. (And it will probably take me another stab or two at it before it's really balanced. Also as usual.)

Welcome to tankblender. :)

I've seen 100k damage to my tank in ranged, (344 ac and 1 mil ToE's aura) it's a whole new game

Yep, round-about mage nerf...

man a little slow tonight... but liking what I see so far Jon!

I'm so glad I decided against switching over to a mage. :)

Ammo still seems overly peculiar..

'8,662 Seeker Arrows [11x1903] $144,340,012'
and the cost to merge my 350 x19 arrows (NW: $167) with my 1,200 x79 arrows (NW: $724) would cost me $193,217 :P

BAM! ...and Krang now can hit you for 3M damage in one swing.

Oh, and he gets 3+ swings a round, we've gone back to CB1 gameplay...

wow, what huge ToA buff...
my ToE and AC are looking more and more like an albatross.

as noted in chat, I'm working on the ammo nw bug

in the meantime, if you sell to the store, you'll only get $1 for it. (hi, tezmac)

Wasnt my point in doing it, thought I'd be buying up some crazy upgraded ammo to play with. :O)

Im not sure, I think I kinda like 15mil NW arrows - kinda makes me feel....wealthy?
Make the merge $1 and keep the NW :) So far it seems pretty cool, but ask me what I think after I get some sleep

whats with the rewards per fight. I'm now getting less than 1/2 what I used to get. Everyone else experiencing the same?

Port you're getting half what you used to get because your MPR is about 6mil...The ammo bug is raising it too high.

From what I can tell, my rewards have stayed the same. (But I am tired) Could you be using "Super Arrows" to adjust your pr? If so, wait a little bit, it's being worked on :)

Yep it was the arrows. I unequipped them and I'm back to normal returns.

Thanks.

Funny, my fight list didn't change. I guess it pays to be pure offense?

I'm sad.

Why does my CB look so funny? It's all white in Opera? Are there theme changes afoot?

Ex/Ax bows' upgrade for 'x' is dirt cheap, major drainage now :)

so this is right?

Grond 'Hammer of the Underworld' [84x2190] (+50)
Angainor 'The Chain of Melkor' [4x307] (+65)


whoa!

What about A/E xbows?

How is UC affected?

Looks like buying a Morg and a BoNE last week was a very very wise decision.....this is going to be interesting. Lets see what I can do with proper tanks now!

Went to merge 2 sets of bolts. Both sets were x1 +0. The end result was I could merge them for free to make x1 +0 bolts or pay $3 to make x1 +0 bolts. Seems like you still have bugs to work out.

ammo issues are fixed

UC has changed, obviously; UC of Y doesn't correspond to a weapon xY anymore. I willl probably change it tomorrow so it makes more sense relative to the new weapons...

well I hope UC doesn't suck this much, seeing a x50 Morg would probably heal the tank instantly for each hit it lands.

How is this going to affect forging of weapons? It's going to make it much cheaper to up the x now no? I"m no forging expert by any means but I've just upped one X for about 1.5k...

... and yeah, I'll have to do something about the blacksmith, too.

Jon, will you have a look at axbows? I don't think it was intentional that they drain so much more DEX...
When fighting Stalker, he put my DEX from 1.4M to -400k with only 2 hits from his axbow, if he get lucky to hit me.

Yeah, if you've got a 2 hour blacksmith queue weapon damage isn't accepted for upgrades...

Oh one more thing - is the upgrade cost still tiered like it was before? With the big weapons being cheaper?

Is ammo now intended to be *this* expensive? It costs me 87k to upgrade my 9700 x1 bolts to x2.

Yeah, I had bolts at x5 before, which I assume translates into something much higher now. Yet the cost to get to such a value is crazy and hardly worth it now. I'm with bart here when I think the cost for ammo upgrades is a bit on the high end.

Does nw of weapons still affect PR in the same way? With this change we are going to see crazily upgraded weapons - for instance this means I can afford to upgrade my weapons constantly and I'm seriously bad with my cb cash.

Wow, what an 'update' , with this kind of update, it seems to me that TSA and Mgs seriously need to be removed. Let's play who can deal the most damage game. :)

There are some quite upgraded weapons on lower level teams in my fightlist who can now beat me. Expect the standings to change accordingly over the next couple of weeks as some of those people realise they can now fight a lot higher.

Oh, one more thing - I notice weapons in auctions are still showing the old stats. Makes them look kind of unappealing now!

Funny, no change to my fightlist here. Something about my team and the way its set up keeps it rock steady throughout all the changes.

waw Jon you really hate mages don't you, man this isn't good for me

To echo what Johnnywas said, it seems that there could be a way to scale back the damage modifier and up the cost per x in such a way that damage stays constant (if you did indeed intend for physical damage to be as high as it is now). Seems a little odd that I could keep the blacksmith busy for a half a day upping my MH by 200 "x's" so that I can do practically no more damage than I could before.

Ouch, I love the change, but it actually hurt me. Teams I was easily beating before that have a small tank that can only hit me once or twice now beat me because, well, that's all it takes to take down my tank. I think I lost at least 4 teams on my list. Ah well. Glad to see everyone else is doing good with the change.

Indirectly this now makes HP and therefore AS the most important stats to have. If you're being hit for 3 mill a strike you're going to need huge amounts of HP to even have a hope of surviving...

One could easily say the reverse and imply its all about avoiding damage now. Evasion might be more helpful. Then again, that's being narrow minded about it. Personally, I think the big deal now is AC since the damage is getting well over the ToE. The other way to look at it is to say, "Heck with defense! Its all about the offense now!"

If you've been smart then it's always been about offense. Nothing has changed that much. And, if you've really been smart you'll have worked out the best ways to defend from the way you attack.

Or is that just me??!?? :P

Johnny : Actually, it's the other way around, it's impossible to have very high HP, because no matter what, the hp will decrease very fast in few rounds, seems pointless to have high HP and with high HP, you obviously have weak offense (unless you own 100+ mil nw weapons). The most important stats now is the offensive ones, str, dex, DD, and also GA. I mean, maybe you can't beat the other person, but if they couldn't attack you because they kept drawing with you, it's pretty much the way to go here.

VA just got a massive boost. And along with it the Morg and BTh...

If you can hit for (in some cases) 6 times the amount of damage you used to do, VA will keep you alive (as the amount stolen can go above the amount of HP you have trained.

Imagine to massive tanks, both with VA effects swinging at each other. Stalemate.

It's also a PL nerf. You'll need a lot higher level to absorb the damage coming your way.

I see what you're saying TD and you're right. But those people who want to counter this will have to up their defense stats in return. I foresee a rise in people using the RoS....

Bah, the RoS teams are weak. Its always been about the SF, even before Jon made MM better. Then again, I'm clearly bias.

As for saying what it does or does not nerf, you shouldn't really pick it apart piece by piece since this is clearly a defense nerf all together. Yet, it is true that things are affected to different degrees. As I said before AC is not nearly in as bad a shape as the ToE since AC is percentile and ToE is flat damage reduction.

Yup. Also GA took a hit. You need to train it a lot higher now.

All in all, if you aren't a tank with a ToA and a fat pair of DBs, you're toast.

Hmmm... I'm not liking this change much, it seems to have removed all strategy from the game.

I'm not sure I agree with you there yet GL. For a long while we had the reign of the single FB mage. Not much strategy there at all. Tank vs tank is going to be more interesting. If both of you are doing huge damage then you've got to think up ways of surviving.

That's just it. there is only one way. Not get hit/hit more and have a massive VA alongside your easily upgradable massive weapon. With fixed x upgrade cost it gets easy for the little guys to pump there weapons, and supidly easy for the big spenders.

Nothing can now compete with a ToA Tank.

AS+RoS is out, GA is out, DD is out, PL is out.

Who cares about invisibility when you're one rounding every minion you face.

This change would pump up value of USD again LOL everyone who wants to be a good tank has to get his pocket loaded first.

There's always a good thing in every change :D

I had hoped it was STR I didn't have that was costing me damage, however now I hear that chars with less STR and UC are hitting for more than my Morg against nekkid chars.

From Jon;

"UC has changed, obviously; UC of Y doesn't correspond to a weapon xY anymore. I willl probably change it tomorrow so it makes more sense relative to the new weapons..."

Maybe that's the cause of why I'm hitting so high?

Nymandus (Templar Invictus) defeated Critical Fumble after 4 rounds of combat

my strat is dust.

novice,

How can you say that? You could make a few minor changes (like adding a ranged weapon) and perform well.

Novice has one of the highest ACs, backed by three PL minions. That's getting blown through by the new physical damage people can do.

Defensive strats are dead.

The new heights of physical damage won't last more tehn a day or two.

"And it will probably take me another stab or two at it before it's really balanced. Also as usual."

I took that to be in response to the upgrade costs.

Guess we can only wait and see! :D

From having a very comfortable VA it's now ~25% of my MPB. Going to be hard to get max returns on that again...

Welcome to tankblender. :)

Bravo! :D

look at the morguls...

Who cares about Morgs, anyone wonder if the Days of ELB+BG+Archery are coming back?

Some teams with bows are killing me in the first round

I was just mentioning archery to someone...

*cough* Mikel *cough* Archery is back!

Let's hope not. :(

It sucked when one item ruled everything...

it wont do that it will just make it good now, MH is still the only 1 item.

oh yeah i did a comparison with Cylo.

Flamey: A VB with x103 | MPB 100k | ST 105k

Cylo : An ELS with x1000+ | MPB 130k | ST 45k

these are approximates but seems ST has a big meaning now.

I think the wisest thing anyone can do right now is wait and see how this pans out. I wouldn't make any hasty changes to your strats or switch over. Jon is likely to tweak for a while until he feels things are right.

I'm definitely not going to start my next team until I know what's what....

I like the change of all mages as we know it.
Even better for beginning tanks. All those small mages around 1000 pr.

my advice from the start of this change, JW.

this is too overpowering.

Yeah, reduce the lower level mage damage and ramp up physical damage.

I was getting all excited to start my new NCB team. I'm gonna hold fire on that fora while...

more like,


paypalblender

or

USDblender

Not really a big change then....

Sorry forgot the ;)on the end of that one! :)

guess its time to drop the mage and start a tank
you know what, mages own and i'll prove it

Mages own eh?

AoD's apprentice's Magic missile hit Violet Bier of Sorrows [125690]
Angel of Death's Magic missile hit Violet Bier of Sorrows [289722]

I was doing twice that much, with a single minion under half your MPR...

Own, not any more. :(

July's big change? What happened to quarterly change months starting with June? :D

It's still June where I am right now..

Oh yeah,,,didn't notice that one!

Upgrading weapons now is going to take weeks to get to +10000 like Krangs MH.

... and yeah, I'll have to do something about the blacksmith, too.

--Jonathan, 2:02 AM EDT

It's been a tough couple of weeks so we'll give him the benefit of the doubt and put it down to sleep deprivation.

Title changed to "June's big change" just to keep the pedants happy :)

I'm not sure if I like it ;-)

Anubis pulverized Anarchy with Mjolnir [2379614]
Anubis draws strength from his weapon! [109581]
Anarchy's Guardian Angel smote Anubis (296855)
Anubis pulverized Anarchy with Mjolnir [2654552]
Anubis crushed Anarchy with Mjolnir [2288298]
Anubis pulverized Anarchy with Mjolnir [3090271]
Anubis crushed Anarchy with Mjolnir [2536468]
Anubis cries "WOOF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


To bad I just have ~600k hp after AS >.

Was that really a fivestrike? At 2 mill per strike?!?!?!?

Its certainly a snowglobe day

Five 2 mil hits make little kittens cry! O_O

Its cb1 all over again. Except for the NUB/NCB of course.

Poor Ranger, just sold his almighty tank for a silly mage.

It's time to bring out Mage's most powerful magic, FoD !! (Eventhough I've never experienced/used it, but I heard it's pretty powerful) ;)

too big change. i have a middle character (700k mpr) and now i am able to win against much more opponents, some of them crushed me for months...

For the record I think you went too far. I see tanks with PRs of 1M at 1.7M Score. It used to be I had problems with tanks with AMF - give an equal score they typically beat me. Tanks were pretty much on an equal footing with mages from what the Score/PR ration was telling me. Now all the tanks at my level beat the crap out of me and the only thing I can fight is other mages.

I think you're on the right track, but I sure hope you hurry up with the next 'stab'.

tanks were on equal footing with mages because most defense was aimed at mages. Now you'll see a shift to a more balanced or tank oriented defense (Ethereal Chains ;) and tanks' score should adjust accordingly.

Yah, tank is doing too much damage. I have a tank with only 90K str and he did a lot of range damage [nearly 1.5xmore] with a regular bow.

Not a too good change. Need to adjust it to 1/2 or 1/3 down.

The math for the new formula for damage needs some tweaking aye. But only huge damage is done by the high lvl weapons.
Should there be a cap on the weapons for damage to solve this problem?

One question: why the mage nerf earlier in the week and then this? Is that tiny mage change really even necessary now? Shouldn't everything go linear now?

I can only assume its something to do with the way the PR free nw allowance for weapons works.

Dixie Cousins and Xanas are now on my fight list...that can't be right. Poor TJK.

"GA is out"

What are you talking about GL! People needed a high GA anyhow to get over the big hits from DD. I honestly think that the one reason why I'm completely unaffected, and probably in better shape then before, is purely because of my GA. I understand your thinking, but it just isn't working out that way.

I agree with that Vestax. Switching to UC again today I could beat a few people hands down. Until I added ranged. Then those people with large GA's killed me before I could get anywhere.

If you're going to have a GA it might as well be a big one. Otherwise just don't bother.

LOL! What level of GA do you need to train to get a 50% retun on a 2 Mil hit?

That's why GA is out... ;)

Vestax's char has a couple of large tank teams on the fightlist. So that particular GA must be working pretty well

Ah, 2nd in the game....

Also: how is the 3% naming bonus calculated into the new X?

still the same as in [something x 2000] => [something x 2060] ?

My GA is nothing to compared other enchantments out there. Wouldn't even make the top 25 on the AS list. By the way, krang is out of my league either way and should be. His MPR and NW far exceeds mine.

By the way, you do understand that most powerful blows are under the best possible conditions, right? 200 AC and Protection (10) sort of makes a tanks blows less then optimal. And I'm not even going crazy on defense.

I suppose 2 mil hits is a thing for straight up mages with no AC to worry about.

I also very much enjoy the fact AC is percentile. Its that tiny little mechanic that saved my teams life when damage took a giant leap. Plus, with protection still up in the air and ToE already providing flat damage reduction, i think we need AC to stay as percentile.

Then again, I wouldn't think it a bad thing to increase the flat damage reduction component that already exists in AC.

That's interesting. My fight list shrunk, but those on it have moved up in MPR and I seem to be even better off than before. Does this mean the top folks are getting hammered, bringing the scores up?

I have no idea what any of this gibberish means, but as the de facto CB Ombudsman (albeit, sans flashing rainbow font tag), I feel an obligation to reflect.

As *flash*fruity rainbow*[CB Ombudsman]*fruity rainbow*flash*, it is my duty to have my finger on the pulse of CB at all times. And so I do...sometimes two. And this is what I sense...no one is jumping up and down and throwing tantrums; therefore, this is not a "big change.

Jonathan used to spend months crafting changes that would ensure that at least 50% of the players would threaten to quit, and 10-20% would actually disappear (a non-statistically significant 1-2% would have cerebral hemorrhages and/or severe angina which could not be directly attributed to CB).

In any case, this supposed "big change" doesn't seem to have made ANYONE angry (including Ranger and he gets pissed when air molecules bump into him the wrong way). So I deduce that this is a ruse! I recommend that we all watch Jonathan very carefully. He was not placed on this earth to make changes that keep everyone happy. HE IS TRICKY!

I am available to counsel those that are frightened.

How do Axbows and Exbows work now? Anyone have any idea?

Same as before - put a bolt in and fire :)

they seem to be draining both the minion hit and the PL minion now.

I only see them draining the PL minion if the PL is high enough. Using a TOE its quite easy to have the PL minion drain all the damage and therefore all the stat drain.

Melkor 'Arises in Might' hit The Grid with Angainor 'The Chain of Melkor' [13744]
Prophecies looks clumsier!
Prophecies absorbs damage [13744]


From my battle with Shade's character.

The Grid is my mage who has the highest dex
Prophecies is my PL wall.

So we can see that exbows and axbows are again nothing more than large NW paperweights due to a bit of xp put into one skill. A very nice balance if I don't say so myself. Yet another change month gone by without any love for the axbow or exbow.

so it's still the case that if more than half of damage is absorbed the initial minion hit takes no drain?

Certainly makes it so it's not who fight's the most, but the one who has the most money who wins now. Great balancing act. Almost ridiculous if you ask me. I think the change is horribly overdone for tanks. I have both teams and have seen what it's done to both.

"UC has changed, obviously; UC of Y doesn't correspond to a weapon xY anymore. I will probably change it tomorrow so it makes more sense relative to the new weapons... " -- Jonathan


I noticed my UC has gone down a bit. Was that the change? Or does UC still need a little love and care?

"th00p Beee, July 4 2006 7:02 PM EDT
the (UC) number was nerfed during Jon's experiments. Too lazy to read through the post to see if it was mentioned, but mine dropped from (72) to (61). Jon's response was that the (UC) number no longer counts as the damage modifier, and I don't know how it translates into the to-hit on the "weapon"."