Monday Musings - RoE vs. SF (in General)

Hey all,

I just got out of my NCB, and my good man colonel has offered me use of a rather large Steel Familiar. It's fun to finally be able to beat some bigger characters that I couldn't touch when wearing my RoE.

Today, I decided to compare experience gains from the RoE vs the SF. The dilemma is apparent: the SF allows me to beat a higher "average" score, but my total PR is much higher when doing so. That means (maybe) smaller rewards. I can still find viable targets while wearing my RoE, but the "average" score of those I am beating is undoubtedly lower in that case.

So, time for empirical evidence!

I fought two sets of 100 battles while wearing the SF and fighting as high as I possibly could. I stuck to about ten teams at the highest end of my highest fight list, ranging from around 1.7 million to 1.9 million in score.

SF:
First 100 battles: 11,609 experience gained.
Second 100 battles: 11,747 experience gained.

I was pleased to see the consistency there. So, for all 200 battles, we end up with 116.78 experience gained per BA.

For the RoE, I had to fight lower, but again I picked roughly the top ten targets of those I could beat (1.5 to 1.65 million score). Here are the results:

ROE:
First 100 battles: 14,287 experience gained.
Second 100 battles: 14,161 experience gained.

Again, very consistent! For the 200 RoE battles that works out to 142.24 experience per BA.

(142.24 - 116.78)/116.78 = 21.8% greater rewards when using RoE.

According to thw Wiki, the RoE gives roughly a 20% increase in experience to the minion wearing it, so that falls right into line. It also means that the base rewards I am getting in either scenario are about the same. The ability to fight higher up with the SF is canceled out by the fact that it boosts my PR so much to do so.

However, using the RoE means I am not growing a tattoo. Depending on your equipment/friends/cash-flow, that might not be acceptable for some, especially during an NUB or NCB when massive tattoo growth can be had. So that facet must be considered when making your decision. But don't let anyone tell you that you HAVE to switch to a "real" (non-RoE) tattoo in order to maintain decent rewards. That simply is not true, at least not up through where I am now (top ten MPR in game). There are plenty of targets these days you can find to kill, at least as a single FB mage (mileage may vary with other team types, I would guess).

Try using a ToE - you can use a much smaller tattoo than you need for a familiar at your score level. So your pr won't go up quite as much. The reduction to damage taken and the cut to AMF backlash makes quite a difference in fights. I'd be interested to know how much difference it would make to your standing with a large ToE on board.

If you want to test this, you're more than welcome to borrow mine! ;)

It's Tuesday!

i like your results something i can actually see.

you end up getting 20% more rewards, but what about cash? or are we just talking XP here.

also, if you can fight up, less people can beat you, which can be seen as a sense of achievement also taking away less CPs from you which can give you a bonus.

but while fighting did you have the same clan bonus for both tests or no bonus at all?

sorry i hadn't seen the posts before mine.


JW, i think he was referring to rewards gained, i don't think ToE would make that much of a difference. like he said he is basically in the top 10 or so.

Flamey, it's still Monday in our parts of the world lo! The reason for my suggestion is that the ToE, out of all the tattoos, gives you more effect per level than any of the others. Obviously it depends on the strat but I've always been able to fight up more effectively with the ToE than I've ever been able to with the others. So where you might need an 800k level FF to fight at a particular level, you only need a 500k ToE (this is approximate you understand). So lower pr, fighting higher leads to better rewards.

Worth a test I think Sut ;)

I understand. but it brings me back to the point, i don't think it could make a difference at his level, but i'm sure its worth a try for lower levels.

Flamey, I would assume cash rewards are dead even. The RoE gives 20% anyway, and that's what I saw in experience growth. So, in my mind that means base rewards were about the same in each case, including money.

Maybe I will test a ToE in the future, but I don't think I would realistically go with a ToE until I would buy a wall (I see the damage reduction on the tank in Critical Fumble and my mouth waters).

Well, here is an interesting tidbit: I can beat son of Lorhar, and he has the second largets ToE in the game, total PR of 2,269,267 vs mine (with SF) of 1,784,395. Granted, that is an isolated case because he has DM instead of AMF, but it isn't bad. I just rattled off six straight wins, no draws. With the RoE I got five draws and a loss. I'm not convinced a ToE is worth much on a single minion. The familiar affords protection in its own way, and helps with the quick kills. If son of Lorhar converted that ToE to a 2.4 million level SF...wow. That would be some major damage, and in most cases he can eke out 2-3 rounds of it.

I love the ToE, even on single minions. I love the fact that it goes with my best shoes. I love the fact that it what it does is effectively weaken your enemies. Which is nice. I love the fact that it blocks AMF backlash. I love the fact that unlike a familiar tattoo you don't have to worry about killing it in melee with your friendly fire.

If you're going for a quick kill then a sf/ff with your strat would work wonders no question, but where so many of those teams up top are more than one minion why not make use of all that HP you have trained? That's why I would go for a ToE.

Even though it's seemingly set up for multi-minion teams I think it is just as effective on a single guy.

Try it and see. A large ToE coupled with the largest FB in the game. Go on, treat yourself! ;)

You are right the ToE is not so great for single minions versus FB and CoC as they can easily overpower it. You still get what is one of the big benefits for mages however - a reduction in amf damage.
Interesting results and what I would expect at your level. I think there is more scope to keep rewards from a tattoo based strat close to those with a RoE if you are fighting lower down the ladder.

Johnny, I see your point, I just "know" that I won't be able to beat a higher average bunch of people. I know it. I might be able to beat different people, but that doesn't make one tattoo better than the other.

As a single minion, quick kills are KEY. In fact, the only key on the chain! Preserve HP? Why would I need to preserve HP when my battles run 2-3 rounds? As a corollary to that, I don't care about friendly fire -- I rarely make it to melee. *smile*

You CM to me about my large FB is a good point... Most other folks don't hit that hard (not in ranged, anyway), even if they are tanks that hit multiple times...

I think too many people see the single minion team as a quick kill strat. But I firmly believe that if you have a minion who can do massive amounts of damage why not try to make them last longer? That extra life might be all you need to defeat people higher up.

Unless of course you're happy where you are!!! ;)

You'll see your AMF backlash more than cut in half with any decent level ToE, I would say amf likely kills you to 1/3 (used to be 3/4 before the tank buff) of the time...so maybe with the new tank buff the ToE isn't as nice, but it's still the best tat for people with a huge DD.