ToE/AC/Prot? or AC/ToE/Prot and where is the MgS? (in General)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 3 2006 4:30 PM EDT

I had long been under the impression that the ToE went before AC in damage reduction, otherwise I think it'd be awful hard to get past my tank. I've heard people who agree and disagree with now I need to know. What is the actual order in which damage reduction takes place?

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] July 3 2006 4:33 PM EDT

My understanding is

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 3 2006 4:35 PM EDT

my contention is that if the ToE goes after my AC, almost no one could break my ToE's cap (low as it may be) and I would be even stronger vrs tanks.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 3 2006 6:32 PM EDT

Originally damage reduction was AC/Protection /Endurance.

Jon changed this to AC/Endurance/Protection.

It doesn't make a difference in how much damage is reduced in total (as they are - bar the tiny direct AC reduction - multiplicative), but it does make it harder to reach the 75% cap, making Endurace a tiny bit better than it was before.

For DD damage (ignoring Decay..) AMF come first, then MgS/TSA (I'm not sure in which order those two are applied, but again I doubt it makes any difference) then AC/Endurance/Protection.

People will always be able to do damage to you, as your endurance part of the equation is capped at 75%, leaving 25% to get thorugh, or reduced whoever Protection rduces damage.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 3 2006 6:34 PM EDT

Jonathan, May 3 2005 1:43 PM EDT
damage reduction changed to AC/Endurance/Protection, in that order

QBsutekh137, May 3 2005 1:46 PM EDT
For the sake of completeness, can you re-cap what it used to be?

Jonathan, May 3 2005 1:50 PM EDT

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 3 2006 6:45 PM EDT

Border and I went over those changelogs this morning, what I'm saying is that I don't believe they are the last word. the exponential increase in damage I take from people overwhelming my ToE was all the evidence I needed of this.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 3 2006 6:49 PM EDT

ToE's don't get overwhelmed? The more damage done to you, the higher thier cap is, so potentially the more damage they can absorb.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 3 2006 6:54 PM EDT

I'm saying I see the ToE getting overwhelmed before it gets reduced by my AC.
The exponential increase in damage suggests to me that the order is reversed.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 3 2006 7:04 PM EDT

Before or after doesn't mater. The order doesn't mater as they are both multiplicative reductions.

If the ToE came first in the order, all that would happen is it's damage reduction hit it's 75% cap facing smaller damage amounts.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] July 3 2006 7:08 PM EDT

So if my AC goes first, I reduce physical damage by about 75%, bringing all but the top weapons well under my ToE cap (3 mil damage * .25, is still slightly over my cap, hehe). However if instead the ToE goes first a good many people would be well over the cap in damage, letting more damage through (which is what I've seen) which is then reduced by my AC to an almost manageable level.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 3 2006 7:22 PM EDT

ToE going after AC makes the cap easier to reach.

For example. You're hit by 100 damage, and your ToE is big enough to reduce damage by 50. AC goes first and reduces that to 25. Your ToE is then limited to reducing the damage by 18.75. You take 6.25 damage.

ToE goes first. Damage is reduced by 50 to 50 (cap is not reached). AC then reduces that by 75% to 12.5.

If your ToE gives a larger reduction than the damage you take (let say inthe explae above it now reduces 200 damage) if AC goes first, you still reduce damage to 6.25.

If the ToE goes first, it reduces damage by 75% to 25, then AC reduces damage by another 75% to 6.25.

With a small ToE (compared to the damage you take) it going before AC means you will take more damage overall, but your ToE is working at 100% effectiveness.

With a Larger ToE (I should rather say Endurance...) than the damage you take, order doesn't matter as your ToE will always be working under it's 75% cap.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] July 3 2006 7:30 PM EDT

I think you misunderstand what Novice means by cap GL. He means the attribute that allows a large blow to "overpower" the ToE thus stopping it working entirely.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 3 2006 7:33 PM EDT

That never happens though BL. No amount of damage overpowers Endurance. If anything, Endurances potential increases as the damage it faces increases. :/ I'm confused now, and it's late. :(

AdminJonathan July 3 2006 9:26 PM EDT

No, they're not strictly multiplicative. I think that's where GL's confusion comes from.

Endurance is different from the others in that there is a total amount of damage that can be absorbed for a given lvl. Past 4/3 of that (IIRC) it starts to get "overwhelmed."

QBsutekh137 July 3 2006 9:39 PM EDT

Aha! 4/3rds! We have information! Same applies to the ToE, yes? That's why it sucks? :P

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 4 2006 3:05 AM EDT

Gahh, I'm even more confused now...

"No, they're not strictly multiplicative. I think that's where GL's confusion comes from."

Yeah, not best choice of words from me last night! ;) Endurances reduction is a direct subtraction, but if large enough is capped at 75% of the damage taken, that's correct isn't it?

"Endurance is different from the others in that there is a total amount of damage that can be absorbed for a given lvl. Past 4/3 of that (IIRC) it starts to get "overwhelmed.""

Yeah. Like 15% (amount pure guestimation...) of it's level is the total it can absorb.

This overwhelming at 4/3 is totally new though. I don't remember seeing that mentioned anywhere before! (Nice catch Nov!)

So for example, if you has a ToE large enough to absorb 100 damage, if it faces 133 or more damage it get's overwhelmed, and doesn't reduce as much?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 4 2006 9:13 AM EDT

WTB: More hints from Jon on how Endurance works and how overwhelming it works

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