StratTalk,: Anti tank (in General)


Godpanda July 20 2006 4:37 PM EDT

Well sense I can no longer MAKE strategies, I just talk about them and see if others like. Well this idea is designed to kill tank. Difficult when they kill you so much faster, but using what tanks are still doing, I think this could work.

EEWM

first minion is AS. Second minion is GA. Third minion is a meatshield, without PL. No real reason for PL here because its this character a tank killer, and they can't hurt minions in different places with Seekers. And seekers will own you anyways. Put a Ice Familiar on the Meatshield.

Last is a mage with 1/2 Hp and rest Cone of Cold.

So whats everyone think? This character designed to make them take AT LEAST 5 rounds. So two rounds of two Cone of colds. At the least. Hopefully wall gives you another.

So? This very cheap too.

Arorrr July 20 2006 4:44 PM EDT

1. You need to move at least one E to last spot. That save you one round of MM.
2. 5 minion penalize AS a lot. 1/2 HP on M char is worth about 1/8 of your total exp; not enough HP to live. Unless you start out with a lot of HP, then hire EEW.
3. Very weak offensive power. IF has little HP plus your diluted AS = easy kill.

How do you plan to kill any tank if your COC last only 2 round melee and your IF probably die early in the fight?

{Quitter}Gah July 20 2006 4:45 PM EDT

Walls =/= cheap

Nerevas July 20 2006 4:49 PM EDT

Anti-Tank: Single ToA VB tank with DBs and an enforcer's xbow. Go for massive dex.

Arorrr July 20 2006 4:50 PM EDT

Neveras hits the truth. That is the best way to go. Good one there.

Shake Some Action July 20 2006 4:50 PM EDT

It'd be better to grow a big single minion give him/her 1/4 HP and 3/4 CoC and put it in the front with a AoI. Then Switch that IF for a ToE and put it on one of the enchanters so you can have a wall with armor.

Godpanda July 20 2006 4:59 PM EDT

/me wonders if anyone got the point of this strategy.

Its not a wall its a meatshield. AC won't stop the damage too much, but its the one thing that could use it. VB's will be nerfed and if they have multi minion tank you gonna lose. I don't see how its POSSIBLE!!! for a tank to kill the 4th and 5th minion before the 4th and 5th round...

Godpanda July 20 2006 5:06 PM EDT

oh and as this strategy meant to kill TANKS why should I do anything to stop MAGIC MISSLE? Sorry but jeesh...

QBPixel Sage July 20 2006 5:13 PM EDT

Tanks get multiple hits per round. As I understand, they can kill multiple minions per round (at least I believe so, I had two minions killed with arrows in one round if I recall correctly).

Bottom line: 1/8 exp into CoC means you're doing next to no damage. You're not going to kill anything in round 4 or 5 fighting someone your own level. Plus, tanks still use AMF, which means your CoC at lets low level with its low HP will probably end up killing itself anyways.

Godpanda July 20 2006 5:14 PM EDT

GA the major damage dealer here, and no tanks cannot kill more the one minion per round each.

Godpanda July 20 2006 5:16 PM EDT

If they use AMf (mages die and then their tanks die from GA)

If they use DM two CoC mages destroy them.
The ratio of xp on the mage is up for grabs. Could be lowered or raised depending on what needed.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] July 20 2006 5:16 PM EDT

No unfortunately, tanks get one target per round. Granted two tanks can target two opponents if the first tank kills his then the second can target and kill his. I WISH my second and third shot was not wasted in a dead enchanter I killed with the first one, but it is.

Godpanda July 20 2006 5:16 PM EDT

take that Sefton! lol

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] July 20 2006 5:19 PM EDT

if you just want to kill tanks: TE
UC tank, (go without ranged weapon if you want cheapness), E - 100% EC SF.
Pixel, tanks only kill one minion per round (apart from PL kills)

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] July 20 2006 5:21 PM EDT

P.S. I advocate any tank to use DM to protect from GA. You can semi duplicate AMF with certain gear, but nothing short of + on armor or a ToE or protection can stop that GA damage. If you do not DM you allow AS to pump massive HP into enchanter protected by GA, so basically killing enchanters cost you a lot of HP.

So how do you then fight a well thought out AoI protected decay.....one way only if you go DM, and that is seekers.

QBPixel Sage July 20 2006 5:22 PM EDT

I believe GA isn't too big of a damaging factor. If it were, it would probably be used more. If they do use DM, then yet again your CoC mage still won't do enough damage before it dies. Its a lose-lose situation however you train your forth mage. Less HP means you'll die easily from AMF, less CoC means you'll do next to no damage.

Take this into consideration. About 3/8 of your experience is for offense. Fireball mages are having trouble beating tanks by round 3 (ranged) already, and about 6/8 of their experience is poured in FB. It is highly doubtful that half that firepower (actually less because of GA) will kill your opponent's tank within 2 rounds.

Godpanda July 20 2006 5:23 PM EDT

Hmmm maybe I should switch to CHEAP tank killer lol.

Godpanda July 20 2006 5:27 PM EDT

Lol, oh well. So it won't work. But just to go on with this, when I ran tanks, this strat would destroy me. Utterly. And I ran good tank characters. GA is not something to be scoffed at.

For the record I also thought about a JKF...

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] July 20 2006 5:32 PM EDT

I disagree about GA, and I think if people pay attention to the single tanks with AMF, it will become a LOT more common.

Basically GA punishes you for doing more damage. If you have a GA protected enchanter with 100K HP from AS, then if I do two blows of 50K to kill him, I am a ToA tank meaning NO Body Armor, NO cloak, NO MgS NO large AC, then I could end up taking 20K damage for every blow on an enchanter. So if there are 3 enchanters in ranged and you kill all three with two GA returned blows, I massively overkill the enchanter, and take 120K HP damage for my trouble.

Godpanda July 20 2006 5:36 PM EDT

Sefton, do you think this strategy could work?

QBPixel Sage July 20 2006 5:37 PM EDT

Has anyone done tests to see the effects of GA? Does its percentage of effect show up during battle?

QBPixel Sage July 20 2006 5:39 PM EDT

Bane, I have a question. Why CoC instead of FB? If you're counting on GA to do some damage, might as well take 3 rounds of damage to kill your opponent instead of 2 and hoping you'll survive for 5 rounds.

Godpanda July 20 2006 5:41 PM EDT

In that case MM would be preferable. CoC because, once enchanters die (fourt round), its does TONS of damage on 5th round. So if my wall can hold them for ONE extra round then I set. Easy death. That was the plan.

Godpanda July 20 2006 5:42 PM EDT

I believe GA does UP TO 60% of damage dealt...

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] July 20 2006 6:07 PM EDT

It works until I use a big DM enchanter of my own, which I do. Then your AS and GA are cut down, maybe not fully but significantly. I am no longer weakened by the large GA. Your DD wont go off until I am in melee, your enchanters are long gone, most likely the meatshield too, and I have a Mage buster wall in front, then a ToA tank, then another enchanter, All with full HP full PL, you will never kill the tank or the enchanter in round 4 because of the PL on my wall.

Basically it works great on a single ToA tank with AMF. Should do pretty well on any single tank. But if you wait for the 4th round to start taking HP for the first time, and I have nerfed your GA down, so I take a lot less GA damage, then multiple minion teams using walls, E, and tanks will give this strat trouble.

What would I do? I would interject a MM and a CoC (DD or tat I dont care although I would think better to train CoC because you can control the HP on that minion).

I would also inject a AoI decay EVEN if it is just base. Now you hedge both bets. You DM me I decay you, you AMF me I GA you. The MM starts out shooting from the back, if by some miracle that tat minion is alive in melee, well now you hit them from the front and the behind. And if the Decay is working now you only have to do half as much damage as before IF you put the decay in front and protect him wit AoI.

Godpanda July 20 2006 6:15 PM EDT

MM seems more suitable, and AoI would be very nice. thanks Sefton, good points.

Mikel July 20 2006 6:24 PM EDT

RoS is best suited for a GA killing strategy.
RoS+Corn on AS Minion can get you a lot of HP for those tanks to get thru.

Godpanda July 20 2006 6:31 PM EDT

The reason for a familiar instead of RoS (which i thought about it), it so get that ONE EXTRA round against the tank. RoS may be able to do that, but I wasn't sure. If you are then it is by far the better way to go. Because it gives every minion 2 rounds to stall for.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 20 2006 7:25 PM EDT

"Has anyone done tests to see the effects of GA? Does its percentage of effect show up during battle?"

Yeah, I made a detialed post on it ages ago. Can't quite rememebr my reslts, have to hunt it out.

As for Anti tank.

EC+RoS. Bye bye tanks.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] July 20 2006 7:29 PM EDT

Hehehehehe... RoS doesn't help EC.

So EC. As much as you can get, and a corn.

QBPixel Sage July 20 2006 7:32 PM EDT

I'm still doubting this will work, with the small amount of exp invested in offense. We'll see though, if you try this out. Let me know if it works out!
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