Magic Skills (in General)
July 26 2006 2:11 PM EDT
Seems to me like alot of complains could be eased if a couple of skills were created to help mages out. I almost never see a mage with a skill and if it does have one, its evasion. But tanks use that too.
Tanks as of now are more then powerful enough without skills, and with skills they start taking out all the mages.
So my two suggestions are two skills. I call them X and Y simply because I hate thinking of lame names.
X= the tank equivalent of bloodlust
Y= archery equivalent
X= Depending on the level, it would increase the strength of the Direct Damage spell in ranged rounds, then decrease it by the same amount for the rest of fight. For CoC and Decay it would get the same thing for the first 3 rounds of melee. So basically take one of the advantages of mages (early fighting and damage) and increase it to match, if not beat, the ELB archers. I not sure if this is even a decent change, but I think it would help. Especially if you used the increased DD to lower the effect of AMF. The downside is obviously the decreased damage for rest of fight. Really, this shouldn't effect the fights too much, because all your doing is shifting the strength of the spell. So if you were dealing with a massive HP team, you will do worse probably, because the loss of DD can last longer then the gain.
Y= Same thing as archery but for spells and reversed. Fires TWICE in each round MELEE. This would help some strategies, and be useless for others. Just like archery. So what do you all think?
I not sure if this will help anything. But these seem like cool things anyways. Mainly because I find it unfair that mages don't get skills.
Oh and I left UC out. UC hardly counts as a skill for tanks.
July 26 2006 2:17 PM EDT
Oh and don't insult the idea! I am an idiot. Would you make fun of a first grader for being happy with his finger paint?
DD it self isn't a skill then?
Nor dex nor strength effects the damage delt by the DD, so you can pump massive exp into DD. Were tanks need to slice the exp up into a skill HP, st, and dex.
Don't think DD needs a skill, maybe a bit more boosting then a skill.
July 26 2006 2:21 PM EDT
Just saying I think mages could use something else.
Henk, DD is listed under Direct Damage Spells, not Skills. It is not a skill.
Tanks have multiple places to dump XP, but they have a correspondingly greater effect for each point of experience dumped into an attribute.
Bane, I think your constant supply of suggestions is marvelous. Keep them coming =)
Oh, and I like this idea, too. Call the skill "Combat Casting". It's a feat in 3rd Edition (sorry, Sef...)
July 29 2006 11:42 AM EDT
Mages already have way too much to choose from. What would yet another stat add (besides confusion)?
July 29 2006 1:09 PM EDT
If mages have all this choice, and all this power, why is everyone going tanks? Stupidity? If you want to keep them even, give mages something to fight back the tanks bloodlust.
Just wanted to add my $.02 .. I've said it before and I'll say it again .. mages need a helmet... and that CORN is not a mage helmet .. that's an enchanter helmet ... you don't see any hardcore tanks running around with CORNs do you? and I know that the HoE isn't for a mage ... so that leaves the HoD ... obviously not for a mage .. Where is the love?
July 29 2006 3:23 PM EDT
Bane: giving them even more toys would weaken mages... it's a diversion tactic.
July 29 2006 4:46 PM EDT
Not true. Thats like saying giving a non-ToA tank bloodlust weakens them. Of course it doesn't. It helps them. The skill just has to be set to a ratio, instead of something like evasion.
if you're a mage why spend exp on anything but DD and HP.
July 29 2006 9:27 PM EDT
Don't know if this will make sense, but I've always felt there should be some magic skill(s).
Maybe tweak damage on DD spells, maybe an overall reduction, and give options for two or three skills. Some of my random on-the-spot ideas... a skill that maybe 'penetrates' AMF or reduces backlash (would be stackable with a ToE). A skill that reduces armor (including MgS, TsA) effectiveness, like a VB. A skill that allows more casts, like archery.
No idea, just my random input.
and what about defensive enchantment ? Tanks have VA which seems to be a must for every tank team to survive which make it one of the most important things to have if you're building tank, mages have nothing (I think this is one of the reasons why tanks at the top just don't die or can survive longer, huge AC, ridiculous damage, crazy leeching). I think it's time that mages have some sort of leeching skill like this.
A suggestion of how to make this work, this VA for mages works only to the minion training it (so there you have a choice, HP & DD only or HP & DD & VA), unlike the current VA which you can just have as big as you possibly can by training it on enchanter. If you think this is still overpowered or something, let's put like a 20 % cap of leeching or something like that.
July 29 2006 10:37 PM EDT
Could make some 'high-end' skills like some sort of damage absorption. Or something crazy, just make the EXP cost 200k or something crazy. Just a thought, because there are no skills or spells that cost a substantial amount of EXP
Training bloodlust on a tank is far better than putting that XP directly into Str.
Why don't Mages have a BL equivalent?
July 30 2006 1:16 PM EDT
EXACTLY! Thanks GL, now that you said it maybe someone will care lol.
July 30 2006 1:19 PM EDT
I agree with you Bane, and GL too. It would seriously help others, but if they have the mininos, or someone pays attention to their strat, they may be able to catch them, but how often does that happen? ;) good idea guys.
"Could make some 'high-end' skills like some sort of damage absorption. Or something crazy, just make the EXP cost 200k or something crazy. Just a thought, because there are no skills or spells that cost a substantial amount of EXP"
:D That's great! I always though Endurance sohuld be made a skill. Could have the starting XP costs of 14K or sometihng. ;)
July 30 2006 2:41 PM EDT
not a bad idea. Let protection be protection, and make a new skill that would do the same thing but for a greater cost. So like 100k-200k skill, but gives like 30% endurance to one minion, 15% to two each. 10% each to 3, and like 7.5% to each of 4. I like it. But may be overpowered. We could make it weaker not to upset the game.
Im very afraid if there is something like a BL skill for mages, that it will get very overpowered very fast.
July 30 2006 4:10 PM EDT
As far as BL for mages is concerned, there would first have to be some MAJOR damage tweaks to DD spells. But why? There was just a major change in weapon damage, lets go for another huge change! That way mages can have a little more fun playing Tank Blender and can at least have some sort of original strat other than 1:3 HP/FB.
July 30 2006 4:12 PM EDT
I agree... I see no reason why mages shouldn't have skill equivalents of BL and VA. Perhaps simply a skill called "Leech" that would convert a portion of damage back into HP for the firing mage. Would sort of just be an exact counter to AMF backlash. Endurance would also be a nifty skill to be able to train, and the game mechanics already exist for working endurance into the damage calculations...
Someone asked, why not just train DD and HP? Well, because that's boring. Folks talk about how boring it is to run a mage, and then when someone talks about "mixing it up" for mages, people say it's too complicated? Someone needs to explain to me the logic behind that one...
"As far as BL for mages is concerned, there would first have to be some MAJOR damage tweaks to DD spells."
Why? Without BL, Tank damage (single hit) is very comparable to Mage damage as it is. Tanks do a little more, but that's expected, with the recent DD lowering at low levels.
BL complicates matters. It does too much. There is no downside, and the XP is never better spent any where else.
Besides, Mages are boring right? HP/DD that's all you need. No worries about NW or where else to put XP.
Well, why not jazz that up a ltitle? Give Mages players something to think about.
July 30 2006 4:55 PM EDT
woot mage skills. Yeah, the simple fact is why should mages do less damage? With ToA and bloodlust on a single minion tank, they do more damage, and live longer. How can a mage possible keep up? They can't without some way to augment themselves. Leech, Bloodlust for tanks, damage reduction, all these things would help mages so much. And, by the way, I run tanks. All the time. Only farms are mages (cheaper).
July 30 2006 4:58 PM EDT
"Yeah, the simple fact is why should mages do less damage?"
Because tanks have to spend money on weapons, mages dont. I'd rather see some more mage items than a skill, because I think mages are already strong enough.
July 30 2006 4:59 PM EDT
I agree, giving mages something more to incorporate into their strategy would be spectacular. I also want BL's penalty back.
So this is going towards more items for mages?
Back to the point. Skills? maybe. Items for more strategy options? No please.
I believe the items are balanced.
However the recent damage changes didn't made it cheaper for the tanks to do high damage.
Mage strategy is the cheapest around. All you need is a base ToE and your set. Perfect for the NUB to make some cash.
But tank strategy's need all those items because you have to dilute the EXP more. And items cost cold hard cash (even milky warm cash).
Tanks do more damage, true. Mages are essential for every strat? I believe so.
Point to this all. Mages are cheap to run high profit. Tanks are not.
More skill thingies? I would love to see something like spell craft or focus.
Spell craft: Giving the mage chance of a percentage for extra damage. (like BL)
Or Focus: helps reducing the AMF damage. (like endurance which could stack with a ToE)
To be fair;
1) Mages essential to every strat. No. Single Archers (some say Single ToA BL tanks) don't ned Mages. They can help, but aren't essential.
2) "But tank strategy's need all those items because you have to dilute the EXP more."
No you don't. A Tank can train just HP and Str, like a Mage trains HP and DD. Pth from weapon can make up a lack of dex. Or use a ToA.
There you go, same XP concentration. ;)
July 30 2006 9:01 PM EDT
Exactly. Another reason for mage skills -- tanks even have a dedicated tattoo -- where's that for mages? Don't say ToE, because some tank teams use that to their advantage too.
All the more reason to "mix it up" for mages...
How about a skill that allows MM mages to "seek" tanks, seems fair... doesn't it? :)
Well, I come it from a different view. Instead of having an idea and no name, I have names and no idea.
All nice mage like skills but I have no idea what they would do mechanics-wise!
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