This weeks changes. (in General)

QBJohnnywas September 21 2006 6:18 AM EDT

Most of the focus this week has been on the free untrain. Understandably, it's the perfect opportunity to gather information on all aspects of the game.

But the changes to fighting for me have changed the landscape quite considerably, probably more so than anything else apart from the NW/PR link.

Other people may be finding different outcomes but I feel that:

It is now not worth running a bloodlust tank with a ranged weapon, unless you have massive PTH. I was using a +50 ELB and it was missing quite often in ranged after the changes. And then my tank was just standing there for that first round of melee. It lost me several people from the top end of my fightlist. It was suggested to me that I could switch to archery but I've been pouring money into melee, it's been my focus on this team. It would require massive changes for me to go down that route and probably a fair bit of cash. Not a problem for the game, but a problem for me personally.

And it might just be me, but that missing round of melee feels a little bit clunky, clumsy even. I understand the reasoning behind it. The changes have been well thought out in order to avoid archery overwhelming like it did in CB1. But would you just stand there trying to ready your weapon while somebody else is attacking you?

And if you're running a bloodlust tank and you're using ranged you're now having to wait until 4 rounds have gone past until you get the chance to use what your team is built around. Archery gets to go first, MM and FB get to go first, CoC gets to go before bloodlust now. OK, so other tank teams with both ranged and melee all miss that round so in the tank arena it's a little fairer but make no mistake it was a fairly good bloodlust nerf IMO.

Only recently was Sefton bemoaning the weakness of archery. Some of these changes almost seem like a response to that thread. And it's funny how I'm now in a similar position with regards to bloodlust.

Like I said, most of this is just me, and I have made tweaks that have helped me work around the changes to my favour so I'm not coming out of this too badly. But I'm not sure I like the changes and I'll be interested to see how they work once everyone is less involved with free untraining.

Now, was I trying to make a point here? I forget. So I'll ask, those amongst us who aren't fooling around too much, how do you like these changes so far?

chuck1234 September 21 2006 6:28 AM EDT

imho, the Archery changes are spot-on, as is the BGs enhancement. As for Evasion, I don't really know if its gonna stay or get knocked down again. About the loss of the first melee round, maybe a lot of thinking has gone into it, so I really can't comment.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 21 2006 6:29 AM EDT

I love them. :)

Love. Adore. Maybe even worship. ;)

"CoC gets to go before bloodlust now."

Only, if you're using a rnaged weapon, and therefore going before CoC for damage anyway. :P

QBJohnnywas September 21 2006 6:57 AM EDT

I think they're pretty well balanced, don't get me wrong. I'm just not sure I like them! What they have done is level the playing field a tad after the physical damage changes of earlier on in the year. For the likes of GL that's cool, you're not now faced with one choice - be a tank and succeed because if you want to be a mage you will struggle. Mage teams have just been given the boost back to equality that they needed, especially if they choose to use evasion.

But if you are playing a tank team things have just become a bit more rigid. And really, and again this is just my opinion, if you are running a tank team there is no real all-rounder option anymore, you have to specialize somewhat. Go for ranged but struggle in melee, go for melee and forget ranged. Go evasive and lose out on damage. Go UC and....actually UC is probably better than ever.

Anyhow, it's probably a fair indication of how much I don't like these changes - how often do you see me making posts like these?!?!? ;)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 21 2006 7:19 AM EDT

But that's why I love them Johnny! :D Choice. Strategy. Options. Confusion! ;)

I just can't resist this (I know it's highly immautre and not really constructive);



QBJohnnywas September 21 2006 7:24 AM EDT

Ok, you got me!

....I've just turned into GL and GL has just turned into me....

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 21 2006 7:29 AM EDT

I do enjoy this confusion! And yes Jon finally made a change ending the rule of the ToA tank with massive elbs and morgs!

More strategy, new weapons, more choice, more everything!
Now all what's needed is a new supporter item! and more explosive shots.
I can see it now a EWTM team with the SoD splashing around in ranged and the CoC splashing around in the first round of melee.
The tank died, all hail the tank!

chuck1234 September 21 2006 7:34 AM EDT

Henk, you mean the single tank died; coz an archer tank with AoI in concert with a Mage and front enchanter having crazy evasion can still hold the fort.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 21 2006 7:38 AM EDT

Let me put it like this
the all round tank died, all hail the specialty tank

QBJohnnywas September 21 2006 7:38 AM EDT

It hasn't really killed the bloodlust tank. But I think BL tanks are going to have to think again about going ToA. If you're having to wait four rounds instead of three before you can make the most of that outsized Morg, then you'd better make sure you've got some serious damage reduction going on.

In the meantime the best option I can see for anybody who's not an archer is to learn how to dance.....

Brakke Bres [Ow man] September 21 2006 7:40 AM EDT

learn how to dance.....?

which dance? the tango? foxtrot? cha cha cha?
or ballroom dancing? street dancing? Break dancing?

QBJohnnywas September 21 2006 7:47 AM EDT

Break dancing is good. Get some old skool trainers, some lino and an old blaster playing Planet Rock. All those archers will have trouble hitting you as you do the Caterpillar..

QBJohnnywas September 21 2006 7:48 AM EDT

No, for 'dancing' read: evasion...

Slashundhack [We Forge Our Own Stuff] September 21 2006 7:50 AM EDT

I wish I wasn't still such a newbie. I'm not sure if it's really changed that much but I can't really tell for sure due to my renting a wack of stuff a couple of days before the change bomb went pop.I had to push evasion on my self and dump the bloodlust on the tank. Funny thing though if I change the elb. for my smaller bow I lose 3 guys from the fight list so that bow is doing something for me pity its rented.To sum it all up my brain pains.

QBJohnnywas September 21 2006 7:52 AM EDT

'the change bomb went pop' - nice way of putting it!

QBBarzooMonkey September 21 2006 8:08 AM EDT

Except for Seekers being able to see through invisibility again, I am with GL - I'm absolutely adoring this week. I'm feeling like my patience (and stubbornness) with the "unloved skills" (UC & Archery) is finally turning into a truly decent choice...

Now I'll have to think of something else a little bit out of the "mainstream"... Maybe a single minion RoBF Archery Tank next? Hmmm....

QBJohnnywas September 21 2006 8:28 AM EDT

I've spent most of my time here with some of the more 'difficult' choices, so it's probably just because I finally go with the most mainstream of choices that I'm most dissatisfied lol.

BM, back when there was still a Cloak of Balrog flame I ran a small single archer tank,wearing a CoBF and carrying a mage shield....that was probably my most favourite strat ever. A month after I started it Jon got rid of the CoBF....I kind of felt then how I feel now....

And I will repeat the fact that I think the changes are well thought out and balanced. And it's not that I can't see ways of using those changes, or working around them. For me though they just feel 'different', and when it's somebody like me for whom fighting and strategy are my bread and butter I said earlier, I've just turned into GL....;)

I'll get used to them I suppose...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 21 2006 8:53 AM EDT


"It hasn't really killed the bloodlust tank. But I think BL tanks are going to have to think again about going ToA. If you're having to wait four rounds instead of three before you can make the most of that outsized Morg, then you'd better make sure you've got some serious damage reduction going on."

Choice! Don't use a Ranged weapon if you want to uber-ize things with a BL Morg meat tenderiser from round 1 of melee! ;)

Of suck up that los of a round for some ranged damage.

QBJohnnywas September 21 2006 8:56 AM EDT

Choice noted. From about ten minutes after I read the changelog. :P

Plenty of choices, I'm just in the position where I don't like them!!!!!!!!

Anyway, I'm fine, I'm all fine now. Thank you. How are you?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 21 2006 8:58 AM EDT

Excited! I can barely keep it all in! ;)

But, I am finding myself longing for something new. This has opened up 'old' ways as being viable, but I've got the addicts hook for trying something new...


QBsutekh137 September 21 2006 11:28 AM EDT

Love the changes. Mages finally have a useful (more useful than before, anyway) skill to train... Now if I could only force arrows to come AT my mage instead of not... At least seekers see through the AoI, which I ADORE! Nothing like seeing 7 expensive arrows all miss me. *smile*

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 21 2006 12:02 PM EDT

I'm just glad I didn't have any money invested in an elb

Caedmon [Revenge of the Forgers] September 21 2006 12:20 PM EDT

Frankly, as a EM character, this has (so far) had absolutely no effect on me, with the exception that I was able to take my HP from 200,413 down to a nice round number. Which is ok, but not terribly exciting.

Glad to hear you tank types are getting some joy from the changes, tho.
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