Supporter Items and the Time Space Continuam (in General)


Godpanda October 7 2006 1:32 PM EDT

The lack of supporter items is getting kind of scary. Jig, MgS, and Vb are some of the rarest and (especially for the MgS and VB) are some of the most needed items in the game.

But how to put more in the game without making it unfair to old players who got theirs fare and square hehe?

Well, I think it would be nice if Jon would sell past supporter items for a certain about of USD or the CB equivalent.

But, instead of making it a fixed rate, increase the price by 3 dollars (or 300k roughly) going backward.

So the current one would be 6 dollars. The AoI would be 9. TSA 12 and blah blah blah. This makes it so they are always available (though there would only be a certain about available, just like in auctions) and would make it so if someone needed a supporter item it wouldn't be impossible.

Now, I understand alot of players won't like this. But think of it from the view of the person been playing for 2 weeks and has basically zero chance of ever gettign a jig or MgS....

Oh, and maybe instead of just buying from Jon the items should be put periodically put into auctions with the MIN bid at above prices.

chuck1234 October 7 2006 1:37 PM EDT

Its true that some supporter items have more utility, especially for the new player, than others. While the AoI was a fab piece, one can't say the same about the AoF. Also, there will be some who would love to use an RoE or a JKF in the early stages of their character.

The solution would be to provide new supporters with a radio button option containing all the previous supporter items, or the more significant ones among them, like the AoI, JKF, RoE, and perhaps the MgS too. These would be more useful in the early phase of the newbie's game rather than the AoF.

Godpanda October 7 2006 1:41 PM EDT

I am not just talking new players.

I also mean older players who need something for their strategy.

QBOddBird October 7 2006 1:42 PM EDT

I don't see a problem with them as they are. Look at the Items Overview and prove me wrong. Please.

Godpanda October 7 2006 1:46 PM EDT

Yes Ma'am!

Alot of those are in admin accounts.

Alot of those are on inactive accounts.

Alot of those are being hoarded by a few players.

And then the growing numbers of Cb'ers who have zero chance of getting one doesn't help.

And why do I have the feeling you have a bunch of those?

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] October 7 2006 1:54 PM EDT

So if Freed or DAWG or another big USD spender wanted to they could buy as many VBs, MgSs or whichever supporter item they felt they needed? New players generally aren't big USD spenders due to uncertainty of how long they will play or don't have a paypal account (the reasons they use CB$ to buy supportership).
The ToJ therefore would set them back about 2mill or at least $20 just for an item which is very expensive compared to their prices in auctions or FS/WTB and they just can't afford it or aren't willing to pay that much whereas the USD spenders would happily do it and hoard them until they were worth huge amounts.
Supporter items are limited for a reason, so that they are a one off thing which are sometimes useful and become a rare thing the longer the game goes on (especially with the tattoos)

Godpanda October 7 2006 1:56 PM EDT

No, you misunderstand.

The purpose is to make sure the price can never go up too high.

Also I did mean the CB thing so players can buy with CB.

Because if the game goes on 5 more years, someone with a jig could charge WAYYYY over 2 mil for the then non existent tattoo.

QBOddBird October 7 2006 1:57 PM EDT

There are a total of 1,394 Supporter items, and that number is growing every day.

We'll assume half (and that's one heck of an assumption) of them are taken up with the reasons you listed.

That still allows every *ACTIVE* player, assuming we still have a solid 300 of those, 2.3 supporter items each.

I still fail to see how there is a lack.

Godpanda October 7 2006 1:59 PM EDT

Most of those are AoF and AoI!

You are forgetting that its not linear of every supporter item being equal. Its almost impossible to find the older ones in auctions!.

I don't mean for it to be easy to get one of these. I just want it to be possible for older players.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] October 7 2006 1:59 PM EDT

But if you suggest they go up an extra $3 after a new supporter item is released try and think how much a jig is already going to cost while there are still a good number of them about anyway.
Also, the reason nobody buys a JKF now is because they are thought of as pretty useless, New players are encouraged to start with either an RoE or a different familiar tattoo in general so your point is void.

QBOddBird October 7 2006 1:59 PM EDT

Of those, only ~300 are AoI and AoF.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] October 7 2006 2:00 PM EDT

Have you tried to get these items or do you know someone who cannot get one? Or is this just a theory?

Godpanda October 7 2006 2:01 PM EDT

Know people. Want a RoE and a MgS.

Whens the last time either been in auction for a reasonable price?

It's all of those. It's simply too hard and will only get harder.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] October 7 2006 2:08 PM EDT

That is the point of them being the rarest items in the game.
The fact you are suggesting everyone is able to get one from Jon rather than another player is ridiculous, we may as well spawn them in auctions and make them standard rares.
Older players are rewarded for their loyalty by being allowed to purchase 1 of each new supporter item, just the reason why someone who has played from day 1 should have that opportunity, it's called loyalty rewards and if they all started to become available to anybody and everybody I would be appalled.

Godpanda October 7 2006 2:13 PM EDT

No. Thats not right. The supporter items are used to reward players who become supporters and those who contribute to the game.

A player who starts tomorrow might not be any LESS loyal then any vet in the game. So why should they be punished?

Stop hoarding your advantages over other players and think about if YOU started all over tomorrow and you had to compete with someone wielding VB and MgS and TSA...

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] October 7 2006 2:13 PM EDT

I remember when I started out, man I had a tough time getting hold of an adam and some cml and when I did finally get some boy were they expensive.
I guess the NUB spoils people, now everyone wants an instant fix.
All I can suggest is advertising in the FS/WTB

Godpanda October 7 2006 2:15 PM EDT

If you had an RoE would you sell it to someone in FS/WTB?

I wouldn't. Because why would you?

chappy [Soup Ream] October 7 2006 2:17 PM EDT

Yea .. why wouldn't you ... you control the price that you sell it for ..

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] October 7 2006 2:20 PM EDT

I sold all but 2 of my supporter items but the fact is we paid for our supportership when we did and got the reward of being able to buy the others after, the players buying supportership now will be able to do the same.
The NUB is already helping the new players become at least as good as about 50% of the veterans in the game without much effort which I totally agree with but I think we should still have some reward for how long we have been here.
If new players can pick up old supporter items as easily as you suggest then what is left for older players who haven't played since day 1 or can't afford an NCB?
I don't mind new players racing past me in score and MPR but this is one priveledge I would like to keep over them or I would seriously reconsider whether being here from the 1st January was really worth the bother.

QBOddBird October 7 2006 2:28 PM EDT

Why would you make an item which currently stands as, in a way, a relic from that time period of the game available to anyone and everyone? I don't understand the logic of that.

Supporter items are NOT normal items.

QBOddBird October 7 2006 2:33 PM EDT

On a side note....


Supporter Items:
_______________
There are 196 MgS.
There are 189 RoE.
There are 206 VBs.
There are 218 TSA.
Normal Items:
_______________
There are 139 ELBs.
There are 101 Axbows.
There are 115 Exbows.
There are 79 Morgs.
There are 64 BoTHs.
There are 67 BoNEs.
There are 120 CoI.
There are 150 DBs.
There are 71 Adams.



...and the lack is of supporter items? It seems to be the exact opposite when you actually look at statistics, rather than how easy it is to get what you are demanding.

Godpanda October 7 2006 2:33 PM EDT

Thats true, but in 3 years how can you expect any new players to compete without these items!?

It will be impossible for a non-ToA tank to exist without the use of a TSA because there will be other veteran players with THEM!

This is not a matter of trophies or talismans you get to keep to proclaim you a vet. Let some else do that! Make it fair for the new players and poor veterans so that they can compete. I do not mean to degrade the value of the items you have, but I can't see this game getting larger when the new players can NEVER get the same advantages older players have, no matter how long and hard they play.

Godpanda October 7 2006 2:36 PM EDT

You aren't thinking of the horribly large amount of supporter items on inactive accounts or on admin accounts...

48Zach October 7 2006 2:36 PM EDT

If people wanted them that badly, then why would pay a high amount for it, would they not? I see RoE and MgS and a few VB here and there selling in auctions and forums..

At about 200k MPR with the NUB, someone can probably make 2-3 million a week just spending BA. If they needed an item soooo badly, wouldn't they just pay more money for it?

Godpanda October 7 2006 2:38 PM EDT

No, no, no its not the price its the availability.

You CAN'T buy some of these things anymore.

The only time any of these items are available is when a vet quits. And if you are making 3 mil a week with a NUB then you play too much...

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] October 7 2006 2:39 PM EDT

and you think the powerful supporter items are going to stay that powerful forever?
People will find ways around them, change months will nerf them and better supporter items will come.
I'll admit I never overly respected much you put forward in the forums due to lack of any real evidence or idea but in my eyes you just don't seem to have much of a clue at all and seem the rather selfish person.
If this happens I'd compare it to the fact that the Labour government are soon going to remove any chance of a state pension I may have been entitled to in X amount of years.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] October 7 2006 2:40 PM EDT

Just as a side note, a FYI if you will, I used to make 1mil a week by spending all my BA every day, or very close to that.

Godpanda October 7 2006 2:43 PM EDT

Zoglog I don't really care what you think of me or my ideas, but thanks I guess...

How will the MgS ever be nerfed? And, if it is, then what are these advantages so many of you say they give for vets alone.

Why is this a selfish idea? I don't need supporter items and I don't fight...

The problem is, the people responding to this thread already have them and most of them have been playing for a long time. If you talked to a new players JUST ONCE!!! Then maybe you would realize these aren't available. The NUB helps new players, but if a new player got to Ranger or DAWG's MPR in exactly 4 months could they compete with their fancy gear (no offense lol).... no. They couldn't.

You quote numbers that are moot because none of them are available. If you REALLY want to say there are enough, then get a few put into auctions even for exorbitant amounts.

Godpanda October 7 2006 2:44 PM EDT

Once again with the "its not money its the lack of the item itself".

Godpanda October 7 2006 2:49 PM EDT

Number of MgS sold in past month: 4

Number of VBs sold in past month: 2

Number of jigs sold in last month: 3

Number of morgs sold in last month: Over 10

Number of BoMs sold in last month: Over 10

Number of ToAs sold in last month: Over 10




Seems fair to me.....

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] October 7 2006 2:49 PM EDT

The advantages aren't just for vets although the MgS and TSA are aimed at people facing huge DD and VB for huge AC but there isn't another way to reward players who have been here for a long time other than to keep the supporter item system the way it currently is.
I don't know how the MgS could be nerfed but it may very well be in the future, plus the supporter items are extremely specialist anyway and aren't all that useful to a large number of players already in the game let alone new players coming in.
A lot of the items are being kept for sentimental value which is why they aren't being sold, why sell them to someone who wants one (I say want because nobody actually needs anything on here) when the reason you paid $6 is for that one off item which wont be available anymore?

Godpanda October 7 2006 2:52 PM EDT

Oh, yeah, because of you want to a run a non ToA tank without AMF, the MgS just won't help that much... and of course neither will the TSA.

Why would a starting mage need a RoE? I don't see why either.

The Vb is over-rated which is why half the tanks who have them use the.

Yeah, why does anyone NEED the supporter items. Well, if thats how you feel zog I trust you don't use any and never plan to right?

QBOddBird October 7 2006 2:54 PM EDT

"You CAN'T buy some of these things anymore. "

I hate to be blunt, but that is quite simply a load of crap.

You *CAN* buy some of these items. All of these items. It might be a little more expensive, and it might be a little more difficult, but gee, that happens.

I had an extraordinarily hard time buying a pair of BGs about 2 months ago. But I could still buy them. I paid 1M for a near base pair because I wanted them that badly. The same will happen with Supporter items. You'll just have to deal with increasing values the same way everyone else does - by saving a little more and haggling a little more to get what you want.

And there's no *NEED* for a TSA.

Godpanda October 7 2006 2:55 PM EDT

You all are thinking currently. What happens in a year? No one will sell then. It will be near impossible to get these things.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 October 7 2006 2:57 PM EDT

Newbs get the NUB, if they cant raise enough money to buy one of the supporter items from someone who already has one,
they aren't fighting enough.

And to say that they are at a disadvantage because they dont have them is an overstatement. Not every strat uses supporter
items, and not every Newb needs to have a supporter item as the main focus of their team.

The rarity is what makes supporter items worth anything at all, if they were as common as dirt it wouldn't even be strategy
to have one, it'd be like having a tattoo, get one or go forge. ; )

Godpanda October 7 2006 2:59 PM EDT

I am not saying to make them so easy to get. I am saying make it possible.

It really would be nice if even ONE player who has nothing but AoI and AoF from buying supportership would chip in here.

chappy [Soup Ream] October 7 2006 2:59 PM EDT

GW - This is the way it is supposed to be ... supporter items are the rarest of the rare .. we dont want an overabundance of them .. it's that simple .. and yes they are supposed to be THAT expensive.

Godpanda October 7 2006 3:01 PM EDT

WHY DO PEOPLE keep thinking I talking about price? I might have mentioned it once and I am sorry.

I am talking about the rarity. I notice people threw numbers in my face but completely ignored my numbers showing lack of them in auctions.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 October 7 2006 3:03 PM EDT

It really would be nice if even ONE player who has nothing but AoI and AoF from buying supportership would chip in here.

Present and accounted for.

Don't have any supporter items, and quite frankly, I don't need any to remain moderately competitive within my score range. (neither do most people, for that matter)

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] October 7 2006 3:04 PM EDT

I use the JKF and the VB because they are there after I bought them, the JKF doesn't help a lot but I feel like sticking with it.
You don't need any of them, you should use AMF on a non-TOA tank especially if it's a single minion because you will be better against mages than other tanks, if you don't want to and haven't got a TSA and MgS then that is your problem not thinking about strategy properly.
You don't need an RoE either, get a lesser tattoo from your mentor or whomever until you can afford a proper tattoo from the stupid amounts of cash you make as an NUB.
VB's are useful but the upgrades are expensive, in no way are they better than the top 4 once you get some decent NW into them.

I can no longer afford to buy back the MgS I gave away in a contest but I don't complain because it was my perogative, I missed the chance to buy a TSA because I didn't have the cash, I do now but I don't shout "I want my TSA for 6 bucks!".

In regards to what I meant about want and need, the 5 things we need are food, water, shelter, warmth and clothing. Nothing in this game is a need, some items may be better than others but they are all usable (in the right situations e.g. armour is not usable on a minion with a tattoo).

Now try to tell me that your non TOA tank NEEDS an MgS and a TSA.

Godpanda October 7 2006 3:08 PM EDT

I give up.

There is ONE PLAYER here without a supporter item, and its a mage.

Well you all go along with your selfish ways. Make sure no player can compete with you. Seems fair to me.

QBOddBird October 7 2006 3:09 PM EDT

The only supportership items I have bought were an AoI and an AoF.

Every other time I obtained one, it was bought from another player.

I spent 1M on my Jig at base level because I wanted it that badly and that's what it took for me to get it from another player.

I know this isn't about price. This is about the fact that it is more difficult to get ahold of a supporter item than another rare.

But you can still get a Jig, and it's been over a year. You can still get a MgS, and it's been over a year. You can still get a VB, and it's been a year. It is harder, yes, but it is possible and will continue to be.

Now stop making silly assumptions based on a lack of evidence. I've given you numbers, personal experience, and other players who met your criteria
"It really would be nice if even ONE player who has nothing but AoI and AoF from buying supportership would chip in here."
have indeed chipped in and informed you that what you are proposing is silly.

Time to just give it up and let it die, already.

chappy [Soup Ream] October 7 2006 3:09 PM EDT

To: Psywolf Sent: 3:03 PM EDT

you are totally missing the point of a supporter item .. they are supposed to be RARE!!!! rare items are HARD TO COME BY.

48Zach October 7 2006 3:10 PM EDT

I am a mage and don't use a supporter item.. but i don't need them right now. When i do need them.. that is when i will dish out the cash to buy them.

Godpanda October 7 2006 3:12 PM EDT

Why bother cming it if you post it here lol?

Thansk BBQ it dead.

And as far your personal experience...you have none really, as the ones you mention are easier to come by.

But whatever. Your thrones are safe up there.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] October 7 2006 3:14 PM EDT

NUB players more than compete with me, more rush straight through me without a time to retaliate even though I use both a VB and a JKF, how are they helping me rule the roost? I'm over 550k pr and can only keep my score between 750k and 800k now due to all the new players having learned a decent strategy and have good items. My strategy may not be the best but at about 250k MPR I was already at this score and I still am because of the new players, supporter items aren't the be-all-and-end-all and they certainly aren't unattainable.

deifeln October 7 2006 3:22 PM EDT

"I am talking about the rarity. I notice people threw numbers in my face but completely ignored my numbers showing lack of them in auctions. "

Recently, I purchased a RoE in FS/WTB (not auctions) and I sold an MgS in FS/WTB (again, not in auctions). You're not talking about rarity, in fact, you're not really sure what you're talking about. The reasons you list for these items being rare (on admin accounts, on inactive accounts...etc) are true for all items including non-supporter rares.

Godpanda October 7 2006 3:25 PM EDT

Will an admin please close this thread?

We could argue forever and it would never stop.

Slashundhack [We Forge Our Own Stuff] October 7 2006 4:37 PM EDT

Can't pass up a chance to throw my two cents in. You talk like these things are real not game pieces if a hole appears Jon will patch it....sometime!

Maelstrom October 7 2006 4:55 PM EDT

Supporter items are just that: limited-availablilty items given by Jon as a special gift to those people who support him. They are <i>not</i> meant to be available to everyone, and in the long run, they won't be used by everyone. Limiting their availability should increase diversity of strategies.

I haven't read all these posts, but Psywolf, you seem to be complaining that people keep talking about the price: it is the nature of economics that things of limited supply but high demand shall increase in value. Those who have those items want their value to increase. If the supply increases, value will decrease. That's what people don't like.

I had a few other points to make, but I'm too lazy... Basically, in the long run, old supporter items will become more rare, and will become less essential to strategies due to the introduction of new items.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 7 2006 5:59 PM EDT

Which I think is the main reason a few people are disturbed by the OMG Ub3r-ness of a couple of the supporter items. ;)

They will get rarer and rarer (as people with them get banned, stop playing, CB buys them up and destroys them), while provinding such a massive impact on strategy.

PirateKing October 7 2006 6:17 PM EDT

I think that past supporter items should be free and unlimited to everyone. They could just traipse over to the MgS Tree and pluck as many as they want.

Better yet, ownership of past supporter items should be mandatory. We could get Bart or GBeee to ban anyone who does not have the good sense to have one. After all... if having one is the *ONLY* way for anyone to compete at any level, then we may as well start 'culling the herd' now and eliminate all those pesky, non-competitive leeches who don't have any supporter items.</snark>

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] October 7 2006 6:31 PM EDT

As much as "customer service" goes that needed to be disposed of long ago.
If I was constantly asked after repeatedly saying no then I would in basically say "No, you were forum banned for a reason, leave it or risk fines for wasting an admins time" or something to the extent, if someone who was forum banned had been on good behaviour on the other hand and asked nicely once after an already lengthy time I may have been more considerate.

It's your decision although I'd go for the threatening approach rather than the niceties if it has been excessive :P

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] October 7 2006 6:32 PM EDT

oops, wrong thread, how bad a mistake!

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 7 2006 6:44 PM EDT

Good Idea PK! I support that! ;)

But would have to have them all equipped (As the RoE would conflict with a JKF), or just own them?

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] October 7 2006 6:57 PM EDT

You obviously have to have 2 competitive teams running at once, a mage with the RoE and AoI while the tank team uses the rest!

AdminNightStrike October 7 2006 7:19 PM EDT

Psywolf,

I mdae the suggestion in past thread last month or so... it was trashed. I believe what I said was that Jon could offer past supporter items to supporters who joined after they were ended. For instance, I got my supportership during the RoE period. So, I then would be able to buy a JKF, VB, and MgS for $6 each. Past that, you had the opportunity to buy them. Also, like with the normal policy, you only get one.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001vEP">Supporter Items and the Time Space Continuam</a>