i was never a camper, but i believe a balance including campers should exist, why you ask?
ill tell you why, for every service there are options, for example we have BS or get a Forger, we buy and sell thru FS threads and auctions, and only lower level ppl use the store, the store had more of a role in cb when rares spawned, again creaking a new blood line for players(blood line cause this game is do darn addictive) liike camping offer another task to attend to in cb, well why was it removed in the first place?
i mean for the camper theres a rush of camping that item, and all it took was BA, it came down to a gamble to look inside pandoras box, so i say to you, the player and the community, as players, with enough support anything can be brought back no? supply and demand, we are not only players but we have the power to bring anything backthat claims enough demand for it.
verbal di·ar·rhea , sorry
You can still make money camping for Lesser Tattoos, anything people sell, and explosive shots, as little as those can make you.
It's just not as competitive, and also not as profitable, as it used to be.
But now you can fight AND camp. I think it's fairly good as it is, especially when you consider that 2 of the best ways to make money take BA, too.
The way I see it, the big 2 (fighting and forging) make the most (and therefore should have a limit on them), and the lesser 2 (auction deals and camping) are just there as supplements.
But as you say, Tyriel, camping isn't really anywhere near profitable anymore.
As has been pointed out innumerable times in other threads, forging probably never was as profitable fighting. These economic options are terrible, but Jon doesn't seem interested in providing us with any choices, barring USD. I wish you were right, db, in saying that we could get him to revive camping, but Jon killed it, and doesn't seem interested in any of the many excellent ideas which have been posted by others to make camping cheat-proof. I don't have a whole lot of hope here, but I'm behind you 100%. Let's see how many other people on CB care. :p
October 25 2006 11:15 PM EDT
camping was fun.
October 25 2006 11:21 PM EDT
I agree with the above statement.
I will gladly drop my hat into this post. I have always been and will always be a staunch supporter of camping. In my hay day, I could easily camp and fight and remain in the top 10 most powerful characters in the game. I was able to spend BA to increase MPR and spend BA to increase NW at almost equal levels.
The new tank buffs at first seemed like a dream come true. Finally tanks were getting the respect they deserved. As I launched into my new tank team with a fervor, I quickly realized the simple truth that, I was adding MPR at a MUCH higher clip than I was adding NW, and my glut of extra gear left over from my camping days was being canabalized to increase my NW. Once that ran out, I existed on the vapors of contest winnings to keep a marginal increase in NW. Once the contests began to diminish, my ability to add NW diminished and the viability of a tank team went with it.
I know Johnnywas stated that he was able to maintain his tank team's NW from fight rewards, but in my opinion, his viability in doing so was about done, when he switched to another strat for a different reason than my own. I still maintain that at the upper ends of MPR, and tank team pretty much requires the injection of USD to stay viable. This is due entirely to not being able to add NW via camping. Monetary rewards without a NUB are to small and the demands to add NW to high to continue a tank team past the lets say 900K MPR mark.
In conclusion, I feel the need for USD would be reduced, the economic market would be enhanced, and overall CB is a better place with camping for rares as a part of it.
Will this change anything, no I do not believe it will. I think things will remain the same. But I could not let a post like this go by without my own 5 cents (inflation for QB status) being added. ;)
October 26 2006 11:41 AM EDT
Camping was great.
It's gone now.
Shame. Let's move on! :D
On a side note:
improving your NW in exchange for BA = forging
improving your NW in exchange for BA = camping
So Sefton, if you decided to forge your gear (say on every Sunday and Wednesday) and added 800k NW to it per week (costing you 160k per week if in a standard clan and 120k per week if in an econ), wouldn't you still be able to keep up in MPR and increase your NW? Granted, the enjoyable part of the camping thrill is gone, but it is still a way to sacrifice some BA to gain NW at a much lower cost...
While in theory you are correct BBQ, but in practice you miss one important point.
In my opinion, forging is akin to watching grass grow. I would rather spend my weekend having a root canal than forging. It is an unexciting waste of time and energy. The only "exciting" thing that occurs doing forging is when you mess up and it costs you more time and energy. That is just lame. I have ALWAYS used the Blacksmith for my upgrades. I will not add to the forging pool, because I am so against it, I do not want to encourage anyone to do something I would not do myself.
So yah, if you think it is OK to justify the lack of camping by forcing someone to do something as boring as forging, then you can do that, you have your right to that opinion. I however; will never be swayed by the forging as an alternative arguement.
October 26 2006 12:12 PM EDT
"So yah, if you think it is OK to justify the lack of camping by forcing someone to do something as boring as forging, then you can do that, you have your right to that opinion. I however; will never be swayed by the forging as an alternative arguement."
Who's being forced? ^_^ I found forging boring and quit doing so long ago. I'm simply saying that it *IS* an alternative. You can either go USD or do something boring to make up for it.
*shrugs* And just because you don't think it is fun doesn't mean it isn't a viable alternative. It simply means it is one you won't personally consider.
And P.S. BBQ allow me to add this:
Bush and the republicans are in Iraq for the duration. They have stated it many times in many ways, so stop protesting, stop speaking out against it, and stop suggesting alternatives.
I hope that sits as well with you as this:
"Camping was great.
It's gone now.
Shame. Let's move on! :D "
Sits with me.
October 26 2006 12:20 PM EDT
*shrugs* I'm a supporter of Bush, so it sits with me fine. If we backed out now, we'd lose all progress made. An unhappy situation, but one that would be made worse should we back out.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings with that earlier comment, Sefton. Didn't realize I might have done so - I simply feel that a year and a half after the change, maybe people should stop moping and move on, ya know?
Woot! more real life analogy!
We will not raise the minium wage because you can always go to school get more educated and then get a non-minuim wage job. See there ARE alternatives to raising minium wage, just because you do not choose to take them, does not mean they are not there.
In my opinion, it is one thing to say alternatives exist, it is another to say GOOD alternatives exist.
October 26 2006 12:23 PM EDT
Just because you don't personally enjoy something doesn't mean it isn't good. ~_^ You need a better analogy.
No hurt feelings at all. So please NO worries there. It is just counter to what I feel makes a good community.
The ability to speak ones opinion without someone telling you not that your opinion sucks, but your reason for speaking your opinion does.
If someone has an opinion I think is bad, I will always speak out against their bad opinion, but never tell them not to express it.
Just to add my 2 cents, i wasn't the greatest camper in CB1 but i had my times where i made some incredible grabs and the sheer thrill of your heart beating so fast waiting for the next page to load (i had dial-up lol) and hoping that you didn't see that god-forsaken phrase in the middle of the page that said those item(s) were bought by someone else before you. Oy, that was always intense for me. I loved every second of the anticipation of not knowing what was coming up and never really knowing when.
Camping, again, in my opinion, was one of the most rewarding and fun aspects of CB1 in both revenue and competition.
Just some thoughts,
I do not personally enjoy egg plant so I do not think it is a good alternative to celery, thus to me it is not a good alternative. You can say, because you do not enjoy egg plant, is no reason for me not to enjoy it, and you are right, but it doesn't make the statement, I think egg plants are bad alternative to celery any less true.
I do not personally enjoy forging, so I do not think it is a good alternative to camping, thus to me it is not a good alternative. You can say, because you do not enjoy forging is no reason for me not to enjoy it, and you are right, but it doesn't make the statement I think forging is a bad alternative to camping any less true.
October 26 2006 1:28 PM EDT
I camped for a while back in CB1, got a few choice bits of armour out it, have camped for ammo here quite often. I'm certainly not the best at it that ever lived, but I'm also not the worst. I enjoyed it I have to say. But what I don't miss from those days is the prices of rares. When camping stopped prices for rare items dropped by a considerable amount, especially weapons. Weapons are rising in price since tanks became the big thing again, but they're still fairly affordable.
There were campers who weren't so driven to charge high prices; indeed it was not unknown for some to give things away. But a small few were responsible for the 'anti-camping' bad feeling that still exists in some areas today.
And just to comment on Sefton's point; I still think it's an option to run a tank team at higher levels with only fight rewards to fund it. But to concede a little to his point, to do so you have to focus your rewards into one area. For me that was my Morg. If I'd wanted to invest in a big bow and some AC I would not have been able to afford it from fight rewards alone.
It was fun camping on CB1, I also seem to remember a guide that I published on playing CB a while back:
October 26 2006 3:17 PM EDT
I agree with Sefton completely, I just don't know how camping can come back without it being cheatable (without huge work and huge server drain).
From my end, I keep leaning more and more toward the no-transfers idea. *smile* Though, I have no idea what then would have to be done with someone like Freed who has enough stuff to run an 800 million NW team... Dang legacy issues! *smile*
October 26 2006 3:58 PM EDT
I would much rather have an economy than camping. It's not even close.
I'm sorry Jonathan, but I am not sure what that means.
If you are saying I would much rather have item transfers than camping, so would I.
If you are saying that while there was camping there was no economy, or that somehow the economy was broken, I disagree strongly.
Also, if you post means that you would be receptive to ideas to cheat proof camping, and be interested in bringing it back assuming it could be cheat proof, and assuming that it would not require a ton of work, well them I will take that glimmer of hope and run with it.
When camping was first removed, there were several posts about how to make it cheat proof, but quite honestly there had not been much time from removal to alternative proposal. Now there has been lots of time, and I could, either myself or from some other fine member of our community, present a proposal that would allow for the return of camping without the possibility of cheating and without a ton of extra programming.
I wont waste your time or mine detailing them now, but if you have any interest in seeing something, and express that interest, I am certain we could generate some good ideas now that some time has passed and more thought could be put into it without the emotion that removing camping carried with it.
October 26 2006 4:53 PM EDT
"you would be receptive to ideas to cheat proof camping"
not really, i've seen a lot and they all sucked.
if you can get bart's buy-in or sutekh's or verifex's, then CM me, but if a bunch of people who don't know how POST differs from GET think it's a great idea, i couldn't care less :)
October 26 2006 6:09 PM EDT
I still like the idea of random item drops after battles according to the same rate that rares used to spawn in shops. This could also be a reward for forgers (less often due to them earning more money from forging). This brings back an exciting aspect of getting rares for cheap/free and might pacify the old grumblers for at least a little while. :) I have been a programmer for quite a while now and truly with all the new add-ons and extensions that people create and can create, making camping cheat proof is just about impossible.
well if the economy is more important to you jon that it has to work with out camping, then you need to start pulling some strings, supply and demand,, at its current course its not going up, but rather drifting along and ever so often the ratio between cbd and usd lowers, and auctions, boys o boys, everything is starting to go for bargain prices, all we have to do is wait for mr chairman to bid and be the next to bid and score that nice 9mil morg for example...i dont know how forging started to hurt feelings or opinions, i admint forging isnt all that fun except for when its forging my dagger >_<
in the ways of MPR and NW, i too find it hard with a single FBM to keep up, and that the difference between my score and PR and becoming smaller and smaller every day, there needs to be a tier level set up, that as you get closer to taht next tier it gets harder and harder to reach it when you do, then its like flood gates open up and its like the ball is rolling for youbut diminshes as you are approaching the next tier, kinda like slowly clogging a pipe and then fixing it and it flows faster....only to clog itself again
Warning : Anything mentioned in the above statement is purely fictional non sense and should not be viewed by ANYONE !"
Jon: I've mentioned several ways that had nothing to do with POST/GET. GL loved it. Even Sut agreed it was great. They went unnoticed.
Novice's consignment idea is probably the best compromise thus far.
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