Melee weapon - cheapest upgrade cost? (in General)
November 20 2006 4:52 AM EST
Which melee weapon has the lowest upgrade cost for the plus?
The big four have the same upgrade cost for plus.
I think that's the Morg, Exec, ELS and BTh. :)
November 20 2006 5:04 AM EST
That part I know but what about the rest? For example, a dagger. Someone with a +84 dagger has a nw of only slightly above 2 million. Is it that cheap for the big 4 as well?
November 20 2006 5:14 AM EST
big 4 have the cheapest X cost.
BoTH, MH, ELS, BoNE.
closely followed by VB, then katana, I believe.
GL i think you meant BoNE not Exec :)
November 20 2006 5:47 AM EST
For shame! ;)
November 20 2006 7:56 AM EST
I'm not interested in the x but the +. It seems that the dagger has a cheaper cost for the + compared to the big 4. Interesting...
November 20 2006 8:49 AM EST
Yeah, that is pretty interesting....
....also interesting is that nobody who posted seemed to have actually read the question.....
...maybe the cheaper the weapon, the cheaper the +?
No no no. We read it. The weapons with the largest base damage, have the cheapest '+'. It's what the upgrade cost of DB are based on.
November 20 2006 9:15 AM EST
Is the NW of the dagger based on the fact that it is forged not blacksmithed?
November 20 2006 9:56 AM EST
I thought the change made all this balanced.
November 20 2006 11:02 AM EST
"No no no. We read it. The weapons with the largest base damage, have the cheapest '+'. It's what the upgrade cost of DB are based on. "
But according to Shade's website, it doesn't appear to be the case. The dagger has a very cheap upgrade cost. A dagger x100 +84 costs just over 2 million. A top 4 melee weapon seems to cost a lot more to upgrade its + to +84.
November 20 2006 11:35 AM EST
Here's my dagger with the x base.
Dagger [4x1] (+53)
It is far cheaper than the big four to upgrade the x but it's a moot point since it can't really do any damage. The x is around 10k networth per upgrade. It's just a novelty. I would like to see a weapon in the future similar however. Maybe a base 40 weapon with a slightly higher x cost than the big four but with the dagger's pth progression. Maybe a supporter item.
November 20 2006 12:09 PM EST
I've always wanted the weapons to have more mix, some cheaper on +, some x, but I think the dagger is one of the few weapons with a radically cheaper stat to upgrade. And, as stated, it is somewhat moot since it is a novelty item (as far as being able to inflict damage).
As it stands, the big weapons are the most powerful and easiest to upgrade in the long-term. So, there isn't much choice other than which big weapon to use...
They are just waiting for the rouge class to be started...quint hits for 50k anyone?
but a dagger is forge only...and dont forget its the lowest of all damage dealers except mine
November 20 2006 7:32 PM EST
But if you can get it to +300, you probably can hit at least 2 to 3 times in melee. So even if the damage is low, you can hit more times which is a pretty good weapon for a enchanter.
November 20 2006 7:35 PM EST
"But if you can get it to +300, you probably can hit at least 2 to 3 times in melee. So even if the damage is low, you can hit more times which is a pretty good weapon for a enchanter."
Or dump that on a BL ToA tank. ToA at 450k level adds 45 PTH, at 1.4 100 PTH, so once you get about a 1.4M ToA on there and some decent DX you'd be getting 2 from DX and 4 from PTH....6 hits per round would be awesome even with the damage low.
Perhaps a Rogue class is actually here and we just haven't been paying attention ;)
November 20 2006 7:43 PM EST
Well, the only problem is how much damage does it dish out. Any data on that? If it can do a decent 100k to 200k per hit then 6 hits per round is really decent for a low nw weapon.
November 20 2006 7:44 PM EST
My future RoBF strategy welcomes that idea very much OB. :)
November 20 2006 7:46 PM EST
Should be a pretty good weapon for a heavy armor tank training just HP and STR since DEX is probably not needed if you can hit for 5 to 6 times a round ;)
it has a tiny base damage, damage should be tiny
The Paladin glanced off of Guido  (base dagger)
The Paladin whipped Guido  (x4 THF)
this has everything to do with the way damage was reworked recently...
So much of it directly depends on STR now, weapon base is less of a factor in final damage.
someone with real str (I only had 200k) needs to compare the damage difference between the dagger and a base BoNE, and a slightly upped dagger and a slightly upped BoNE to see if we can extrapolate the daggers theoretical damage...
+1000 daggers? I've never heard of a cap being found for weapon PTh...
but if a rigue class did exist we can get it to use 2 daggers, thus doubling the damge to a degree plus some nerfing to the damage to put it in its place, oh and reduce the pth too :P
November 20 2006 10:33 PM EST
DPC, it'd go with the idea of Dual-Weapons Shade brought up.
November 20 2006 10:36 PM EST
Why will we need dual daggers to make this a more realistic class? What idiot of a rogue would use two daggers?
If it only cost 30k to go from 90 to 91, then considering the amounts of NW dumped into larger weapons, +500 does not seem to be an unreachable goal - and with a single ToA tank, hitting 8-9 times per round seems like it would well overwhelm the smaller damage. I think the rogue class is very much so possible as it is.
Thanks to Snk3r's character Conundrum for being my testing wall. This is with ST: 981,250/625,000 DX: 1,006,880/812,000 one handed and ST: 981,250/625,000 DX: 974,400/812,000 Two-Handed
This is with a Dagger [4x11] (+3) Hits ranged from 1434 - 2335 30 hits for an average of 1,842 8 doubles
This is with a Two-Handed Flail [66x4] (+3) Hits ranged from 14,304 - 22,677 27 hits for an average of 18,085 5 doubles
This is with a Blacksword of Nan Elmoth [92x4] (+8) Hits ranged from 20,829 - 34,475 25 hits for an average of 27,901 3 doubles
Hope all of this gives you all some sort of idea the damage difference between the three.
November 21 2006 1:19 AM EST
Wow, that's a lot of difference between the 3. I wonder what are the upgrade cost for the other melee weapons...
November 21 2006 1:26 AM EST
Maybe we can use the lower end weapons and convert them to be dual-weapons. That way, more people can choose to use them and they will not be useless anymore. At least I hope that will be the case ;)
Well, if anyone wants any other low end items tested I'll test em for you, just send the items over to me for 24 hours. I think I have a low end MH as well but it has way more PTH.
November 23 2006 6:55 AM EST
Some info I got from auctions (A great coincidence):
An Executioner's Sword [82x10] (+10) $138,142
A Two-Handed Flail [66x10] (+10) $122,539
A Scythe [48x10] (+10) $130,144
A Battle Axe [44x10] (+10) $112,957
All the above weapons have the same stats and the battle axe has got the lowest nw, am I missing something here?
November 23 2006 7:32 AM EST
Kong, I believe it is because the base damage of the battle axe is the lowest of them all, thus making it a little bit cheaper to upgrade.
ive been pushing for dual weapons since cb1, it has not happened so far
What good will Dual Weild bring? Either you do more damage than using a single wepaon, or less.
Plus, BL is like using a second weapon, giving you and additional 60% Damage.
If CB had 'on hit' properties, it would be different. But it's not.
The only reason given, is that you can train your VA a little lower, because your max hits will be a little lower.
November 23 2006 9:17 AM EST
Oh yes, forgotten about their difference in base value. So from which weapon does it become cheaper to upgrade the +? Also, is there a difference in the upgrade cost for the x for these few weapons?
i talking about dual weapons period not including BL, im trying to compare ELS to 2 daggers, if you want BL in there or VA go right ahead but that means BL for daggers and ELS. an ELS should still beat 2 daggers due to the nature of it being a rare, i only wanted it to be a starter class, no one wants to play cb for the big MPR, but the NCB and the fun with a new strat every time.
November 23 2006 8:01 PM EST
I got someone to forge some base melee weapons and did some calculations. The following are the nw changes for the plus:
A Broad Sword [30x1] (+0) $1,398
A Broad Sword [30x1] (+1) ~$1,779
A Broad Sword [30x1] (+2) $2,160
nw change ~381
A Battle Axe [44x1] (+0) $1,263
A Battle Axe [44x1] (+1) ~$1,629
A Battle Axe [44x1] (+2) $1,995
nw change ~366
A War Hammer [20x1] (+0) $1,021
A War Hammer [20x1] (+1) ~$1,768
A War Hammer [20x1] (+2) ~$2,515
A War Hammer [20x1] (+3) ~$3,262
A War Hammer [20x1] (+4) $4,011
nw change ~747
A Tulwar [18x1] (+0) $545
A Tulwar [18x1] (+1) ~$955
A Tulwar [18x1] (+2) ~$1,365
A Tulwar [18x1] (+3) $1,777
nw change ~410
A Mace [16x1] (+0) $337
A Mace [16x1] (+1) ~$552
A Mace [16x1] (+2) $767
nw change ~215
A Cutlass [14x1] (+0) $82
A Cutlass [14x1] (+1) ~$373
A Cutlass [14x1] (+2) ~$664
A Cutlass [14x1] (+3) ~$955
A Cutlass [14x1] (+4) $1,166
nw change ~291
A Rapier [10x1] (+0) $43
A Rapier [10x1] (+1) $190
A Rapier [10x1] (+2) $337
A Rapier [10x1] (+3) $484
nw change ~147
A Sabre [12x1] (+0) $39
A Sabre [12x1] (+1) ~$180
A Sabre [12x1] (+2) ~$321
A Sabre [12x1] (+3) $463
nw change ~141
A Main Gauche [6x1] (+0) $34
A Main Gauche [6x1] (+1) $167
A Main Gauche [6x1] (+2) $300
A Main Gauche [6x1] (+3) $434
nw change ~133
A Whip [9x1] (+0) $26
A Whip [9x1] (+1) ~$254
A Whip [9x1] (+2) ~$482
A Whip [9x1] (+3) ~$710
A Whip [9x1] (+4) ~$938
A Whip [9x1] (+5) $1,166
nw change ~228
Note that ~ means approximately. Conclusions anyone?
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