Melee weapon - cheapest upgrade cost? (in General)


Kong Ming November 20 2006 4:52 AM EST

Which melee weapon has the lowest upgrade cost for the plus?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 20 2006 4:59 AM EST

The big four have the same upgrade cost for plus.

I think that's the Morg, Exec, ELS and BTh. :)

Kong Ming November 20 2006 5:04 AM EST

That part I know but what about the rest? For example, a dagger. Someone with a +84 dagger has a nw of only slightly above 2 million. Is it that cheap for the big 4 as well?

Flamey November 20 2006 5:14 AM EST

big 4 have the cheapest X cost.

BoTH, MH, ELS, BoNE.

closely followed by VB, then katana, I believe.

Adminedyit November 20 2006 5:28 AM EST

GL i think you meant BoNE not Exec :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 20 2006 5:38 AM EST

Opps! ;)

Flamey November 20 2006 5:47 AM EST

For shame! ;)

Kong Ming November 20 2006 7:56 AM EST

I'm not interested in the x but the +. It seems that the dagger has a cheaper cost for the + compared to the big 4. Interesting...

QBOddBird November 20 2006 8:49 AM EST

Yeah, that is pretty interesting....


....also interesting is that nobody who posted seemed to have actually read the question.....


...maybe the cheaper the weapon, the cheaper the +?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 20 2006 9:02 AM EST

No no no. We read it. The weapons with the largest base damage, have the cheapest '+'. It's what the upgrade cost of DB are based on.

QBJohnnywas November 20 2006 9:15 AM EST

Is the NW of the dagger based on the fact that it is forged not blacksmithed?

Godpanda November 20 2006 9:56 AM EST

I thought the change made all this balanced.

Kong Ming November 20 2006 11:02 AM EST

"No no no. We read it. The weapons with the largest base damage, have the cheapest '+'. It's what the upgrade cost of DB are based on. "

But according to Shade's website, it doesn't appear to be the case. The dagger has a very cheap upgrade cost. A dagger x100 +84 costs just over 2 million. A top 4 melee weapon seems to cost a lot more to upgrade its + to +84.

guardian106 November 20 2006 11:35 AM EST

Here's my dagger with the x base.

Dagger [4x1] (+53)
NW:328,393

It is far cheaper than the big four to upgrade the x but it's a moot point since it can't really do any damage. The x is around 10k networth per upgrade. It's just a novelty. I would like to see a weapon in the future similar however. Maybe a base 40 weapon with a slightly higher x cost than the big four but with the dagger's pth progression. Maybe a supporter item.

QBsutekh137 November 20 2006 12:09 PM EST

I've always wanted the weapons to have more mix, some cheaper on +, some x, but I think the dagger is one of the few weapons with a radically cheaper stat to upgrade. And, as stated, it is somewhat moot since it is a novelty item (as far as being able to inflict damage).

As it stands, the big weapons are the most powerful and easiest to upgrade in the long-term. So, there isn't much choice other than which big weapon to use...

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 20 2006 12:55 PM EST

They are just waiting for the rouge class to be started...quint hits for 50k anyone?

Underage Drinking November 20 2006 4:20 PM EST

but a dagger is forge only...and dont forget its the lowest of all damage dealers except mine

Kong Ming November 20 2006 7:32 PM EST

But if you can get it to +300, you probably can hit at least 2 to 3 times in melee. So even if the damage is low, you can hit more times which is a pretty good weapon for a enchanter.

QBOddBird November 20 2006 7:35 PM EST

"But if you can get it to +300, you probably can hit at least 2 to 3 times in melee. So even if the damage is low, you can hit more times which is a pretty good weapon for a enchanter."

Or dump that on a BL ToA tank. ToA at 450k level adds 45 PTH, at 1.4 100 PTH, so once you get about a 1.4M ToA on there and some decent DX you'd be getting 2 from DX and 4 from PTH....6 hits per round would be awesome even with the damage low.

Perhaps a Rogue class is actually here and we just haven't been paying attention ;)

Kong Ming November 20 2006 7:43 PM EST

Well, the only problem is how much damage does it dish out. Any data on that? If it can do a decent 100k to 200k per hit then 6 hits per round is really decent for a low nw weapon.

Miandrital November 20 2006 7:44 PM EST

My future RoBF strategy welcomes that idea very much OB. :)

Kong Ming November 20 2006 7:46 PM EST

Should be a pretty good weapon for a heavy armor tank training just HP and STR since DEX is probably not needed if you can hit for 5 to 6 times a round ;)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 20 2006 7:49 PM EST

it has a tiny base damage, damage should be tiny

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 20 2006 7:53 PM EST

The Paladin glanced off of Guido [805] (base dagger)

The Paladin whipped Guido [6704] (x4 THF)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 20 2006 7:57 PM EST

this has everything to do with the way damage was reworked recently...

So much of it directly depends on STR now, weapon base is less of a factor in final damage.

someone with real str (I only had 200k) needs to compare the damage difference between the dagger and a base BoNE, and a slightly upped dagger and a slightly upped BoNE to see if we can extrapolate the daggers theoretical damage...

+1000 daggers? I've never heard of a cap being found for weapon PTh...

Underage Drinking November 20 2006 10:20 PM EST

but if a rigue class did exist we can get it to use 2 daggers, thus doubling the damge to a degree plus some nerfing to the damage to put it in its place, oh and reduce the pth too :P

48Zach November 20 2006 10:33 PM EST

DPC, it'd go with the idea of Dual-Weapons Shade brought up.

QBOddBird November 20 2006 10:36 PM EST

Why will we need dual daggers to make this a more realistic class? What idiot of a rogue would use two daggers?

If it only cost 30k to go from 90 to 91, then considering the amounts of NW dumped into larger weapons, +500 does not seem to be an unreachable goal - and with a single ToA tank, hitting 8-9 times per round seems like it would well overwhelm the smaller damage. I think the rogue class is very much so possible as it is.

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] November 20 2006 11:54 PM EST

Thanks to Snk3r's character Conundrum for being my testing wall. This is with ST: 981,250/625,000 DX: 1,006,880/812,000 one handed and ST: 981,250/625,000 DX: 974,400/812,000 Two-Handed

This is with a Dagger [4x11] (+3) Hits ranged from 1434 - 2335 30 hits for an average of 1,842 8 doubles

This is with a Two-Handed Flail [66x4] (+3) Hits ranged from 14,304 - 22,677 27 hits for an average of 18,085 5 doubles

This is with a Blacksword of Nan Elmoth [92x4] (+8) Hits ranged from 20,829 - 34,475 25 hits for an average of 27,901 3 doubles

Hope all of this gives you all some sort of idea the damage difference between the three.

Kong Ming November 21 2006 1:19 AM EST

Wow, that's a lot of difference between the 3. I wonder what are the upgrade cost for the other melee weapons...

Kong Ming November 21 2006 1:26 AM EST

Maybe we can use the lower end weapons and convert them to be dual-weapons. That way, more people can choose to use them and they will not be useless anymore. At least I hope that will be the case ;)

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] November 21 2006 1:28 AM EST

Well, if anyone wants any other low end items tested I'll test em for you, just send the items over to me for 24 hours. I think I have a low end MH as well but it has way more PTH.

Kong Ming November 23 2006 6:55 AM EST

Some info I got from auctions (A great coincidence):

An Executioner's Sword [82x10] (+10) $138,142
A Two-Handed Flail [66x10] (+10) $122,539
A Scythe [48x10] (+10) $130,144
A Battle Axe [44x10] (+10) $112,957

All the above weapons have the same stats and the battle axe has got the lowest nw, am I missing something here?

48Zach November 23 2006 7:32 AM EST

Kong, I believe it is because the base damage of the battle axe is the lowest of them all, thus making it a little bit cheaper to upgrade.

Underage Drinking November 23 2006 7:37 AM EST

ive been pushing for dual weapons since cb1, it has not happened so far

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 23 2006 7:41 AM EST

What good will Dual Weild bring? Either you do more damage than using a single wepaon, or less.

Plus, BL is like using a second weapon, giving you and additional 60% Damage.

If CB had 'on hit' properties, it would be different. But it's not.

The only reason given, is that you can train your VA a little lower, because your max hits will be a little lower.

Kong Ming November 23 2006 9:17 AM EST

Oh yes, forgotten about their difference in base value. So from which weapon does it become cheaper to upgrade the +? Also, is there a difference in the upgrade cost for the x for these few weapons?

Underage Drinking November 23 2006 11:57 AM EST

i talking about dual weapons period not including BL, im trying to compare ELS to 2 daggers, if you want BL in there or VA go right ahead but that means BL for daggers and ELS. an ELS should still beat 2 daggers due to the nature of it being a rare, i only wanted it to be a starter class, no one wants to play cb for the big MPR, but the NCB and the fun with a new strat every time.

Kong Ming November 23 2006 8:01 PM EST

I got someone to forge some base melee weapons and did some calculations. The following are the nw changes for the plus:

A Broad Sword [30x1] (+0) $1,398
A Broad Sword [30x1] (+1) ~$1,779
A Broad Sword [30x1] (+2) $2,160
nw change ~381

A Battle Axe [44x1] (+0) $1,263
A Battle Axe [44x1] (+1) ~$1,629
A Battle Axe [44x1] (+2) $1,995
nw change ~366

A War Hammer [20x1] (+0) $1,021
A War Hammer [20x1] (+1) ~$1,768
A War Hammer [20x1] (+2) ~$2,515
A War Hammer [20x1] (+3) ~$3,262
A War Hammer [20x1] (+4) $4,011
nw change ~747

A Tulwar [18x1] (+0) $545
A Tulwar [18x1] (+1) ~$955
A Tulwar [18x1] (+2) ~$1,365
A Tulwar [18x1] (+3) $1,777
nw change ~410

A Mace [16x1] (+0) $337
A Mace [16x1] (+1) ~$552
A Mace [16x1] (+2) $767
nw change ~215

A Cutlass [14x1] (+0) $82
A Cutlass [14x1] (+1) ~$373
A Cutlass [14x1] (+2) ~$664
A Cutlass [14x1] (+3) ~$955
A Cutlass [14x1] (+4) $1,166
nw change ~291

A Rapier [10x1] (+0) $43
A Rapier [10x1] (+1) $190
A Rapier [10x1] (+2) $337
A Rapier [10x1] (+3) $484
nw change ~147

A Sabre [12x1] (+0) $39
A Sabre [12x1] (+1) ~$180
A Sabre [12x1] (+2) ~$321
A Sabre [12x1] (+3) $463
nw change ~141

A Main Gauche [6x1] (+0) $34
A Main Gauche [6x1] (+1) $167
A Main Gauche [6x1] (+2) $300
A Main Gauche [6x1] (+3) $434
nw change ~133

A Whip [9x1] (+0) $26
A Whip [9x1] (+1) ~$254
A Whip [9x1] (+2) ~$482
A Whip [9x1] (+3) ~$710
A Whip [9x1] (+4) ~$938
A Whip [9x1] (+5) $1,166
nw change ~228

Note that ~ means approximately. Conclusions anyone?
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001xGF">Melee weapon - cheapest upgrade cost?</a>