Give EC some love for xmas Jon! (in General)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 11 2006 10:35 PM EST

Let it reduce evasion or more specifically the defensive dex granted by it.

Miandrital December 11 2006 10:37 PM EST

I was under the impression that EC did reduce defensive dex. Because if you have -100,000 dex after EC, any defensive dex is just added to that, so a 50k evasion would only bring you up to -50,000 dex, in melee at least.

Correct me if I am wrong...

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 11 2006 10:45 PM EST

I want confirmation on that, I was under the impression you couldn't touch it with AX or enchantments...and that negatives were a display bug.

AdminJonathan December 11 2006 11:00 PM EST

"negatives were a display bug"

it's treated like base DX (or maybe 1, or 0, I forget) -- but it does go negative, for precisely the reason Miandrital gave

Miandrital December 11 2006 11:13 PM EST

Well I know for sure that defensive dex doesn't get added to the display, it is just stored internally.

Based off Jon's response in this thread: Click Me!

I am pretty positive that EC will reduce your dex, and defensive dex just adds to regular dex.
The actual quote:
logan: it doesn't matter; the evasion bonus is addative, not multiplicative
--Jonathan, December 31 2005 7:38 PM EST

Miandrital December 11 2006 11:14 PM EST

oops, guess it took to long to do the research :P

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] December 11 2006 11:43 PM EST

lazy spammy novice gets no cookie...

UltimaSpock [Forge Frog Services] December 12 2006 8:03 AM EST

hi jonathan

does ec reduces the + to hit of weapons too if the dx becomes negative?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 12 2006 8:07 AM EST

O_O Wowzer!

I never, ever knew that!

That's a big blow to Evasion. But fair.

EC needs no tweaking now.

So, a Mage with 20 Dex and 500K Evasion (500,020 Defensive Dex), would get reduced to zero dex for cth if facing a 1,00,010 EC. :) Nice.

I suppose you still keep the pth reduction though?

QBJohnnywas December 12 2006 8:39 AM EST

I didn't know that either. But that makes EC a much broader spell, and actually just because of that more powerful than AMF really. In my humble opinion that is...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 12 2006 8:53 AM EST

LOL! I agree. ;) And make the AoF a little weaker...

Eva or UC gets increased by 3% per point by the AoF. But EC (which lowers the dex granted by Eva/UC) gets increased by 3% per point by the AoF.

An AoM would probably be better for Archery and BL users (maybe even UC users...).

The AoF just doesn't seem as good as I thought it was.

QBOddBird December 12 2006 9:13 AM EST

GL - good call. AoF gives that bonus to UC, but takes it away in that your opponent's EC is going to be stronger. So definitely no AoF for UC man. AoI or AoM is much better.

AdminNightStrike December 12 2006 9:53 AM EST

I'd rather keep the giant boost to UC and change my fightlist.... but that's just me.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 12 2006 9:59 AM EST

I know I'll be using EC now! ;) Why pump my Dex to try to get doubles form it, when I can use EC to lower yours ;) And your Evasion.

But use an AoF versus me, it'll just reduce your STR/DEX more than usual! MWUHAHAHAHAHA! :P

QBOddBird December 12 2006 10:01 AM EST

Because you have to train your EC to double my DX!


BootyGod December 12 2006 10:17 AM EST


He has lost it. Really, this makes EC a much more viable option. Before this revelation, it could only hurt tanks. Now you can hurt mages too.


AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 12 2006 11:00 AM EST

Exactly Ole, exactly. ;)

AdminNightStrike December 12 2006 11:03 AM EST

This is only a revelation for crazy people like GL and BBQ. In most of the threads arguing about EC vs AMF, this wasn't overlooked. It still doesn't make it more powerful than AMF.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 12 2006 11:07 AM EST

don't care about it's power versus AMF NS! ;) Just that I can stop pumping Dex to face mages with Evasion.

EC For The Win! ;)

UltimaSpock [Forge Frog Services] December 12 2006 11:47 AM EST

but EC is designed to negate both str and dx, so i guess using EC versus mages will not be very efficient.

but it is true it works vs evasion...

QBOddBird December 12 2006 11:50 AM EST

Aw, I'm crazy? Why is this?

AdminNightStrike December 12 2006 11:53 AM EST

"i guess using EC versus mages will not be very efficient. "

It's more efficient than using AMF versus tanks.

QBOddBird December 12 2006 11:55 AM EST

I didn't say that...I'm still not crazy

AdminNightStrike December 12 2006 11:56 AM EST

No, UltimaSpock did.... see? You ARE crazy!

QBOddBird December 12 2006 12:00 PM EST

Crud....maybe you are right

Anyways, my point to GL still stands that you have to train double their DX/STR in EC, disregarding bonus items.

I vote we get CF back in place of EC! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA (validation of NS's craziness theory)

AdminNightStrike December 12 2006 12:03 PM EST

OBBQ: Check your CM

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] December 12 2006 2:27 PM EST

OB. ;) You train XP into UC, STR and Dex. If I only trainthe amount you put into STR and DEX, buhbye your Dex and defensive dex from UC.

I've still got your UC xp left to spend. ;)

Oh, and I slap on a ToA to guarantee me two hits versus you. With zero Dex versus my TA dex, you ain't hitting me either! :P

You could of course use a ToA yourself, but then no Gi for you! :P

QBOddBird December 12 2006 6:02 PM EST

No, GL, that'd be buh-bye my DX, not my Defensive DX, not until you put me 800k into the hole for melee or 1.2M into the hole for ranged.

And I've still got 134 PTH to get you with, so I'd at least still be putting singles on you.

But you are right, you'd reduce me to an Enchanter with a +134 weapon and a pair of 100+ DBs.
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