Changemonth rant... (in General)

Not complaining about the changes, but rather, the way they were announced. Jonathan seems perfectly capable of announcing things when necesary, so why do people insist on making forums about it?

Hey, I found something! No idea what it is/does! But_I_found it!

Congratulations, shut up now...

Or every change I've seen so far to something existant:
Does it do this? Does it do that? Would it work with this?

I would like to think that if there were exceptions, they would be posted...


I acknowledge this is a rant. I understand if it should get deleted. I'm just happy, now that I know, it was said. Thank you for your time and annoyance.

Actually if you look at a lot of the Changelogs they are often posted by discoverers and moved to Changelog by an admin. Many times Jon just clarifies things in their posts.

Yes, Kevin. That is exactly the point.

What I meant was that Jon's not complaining and the admins seem to be cool with it. In fact with people posting their findings makes it easier cause then Jon doesn't have to explain everything and can just clarify when necessary.

Again: Exactly. Only when you say it, it seems as if you mean it in a good way.

Indeed, I do. I think it is a positive thing.

Alright... I'm too tired to add more logic to this at the moment, so just answer one question:

What's the point of posting these things?

Don't say 'to let other people know'. I seriously doubt Jonathan is gonna pop into chat, a week after he created an item, and ask if anyone has figured it out...

I'm sorry, but really it IS to let people know. Jon (though I am not criticizing him, he's got a lot to do) is often slow in posting up changes. By posting up a change as soon as you find it you let the CB community know and start testing it out to understand exactly how they work and how effective they are. I'm sure even you appreciate people's findings and statistics.

Another thing, I wouldn't have noticed the AoC or the HF as early as I did if people had not posted it so quickly in the forums. And even though I did find out quickly I still missed out on some opportunities to quickly get some of these items.

The overall purpose is to maintain expediency in notifying the public and keeping them constantly up to date. If people hadn't posted the changes they found Jon would be creating 4 or 5 posts and having to explain each one. Like I said previously, now he just has to clarify things instead of explaining AND clarifying.

Gotta say Hatch, I'm one of those people that make these kind of posts, and they help people understand what new things do and how they fit into the game. Jon has a habit of not giving away all the information that people like/need to have. ;)

why? It's fun.

Clarification wouldn't be necesary if you'd let him explain, and then actually listen... How many questions were asked about junction? Does this go to junction? Does that go to junction?

As far as I saw, only exception he made was weapons... So to answer you all, yes! It works!

How long did it take for him to get explanations in? Not very long at all, imo... Keep your pants on, and let the boss do his job. This is not a personal attack on anyone, just have some patience people.


On a further note, let's get serious. You're not posting to let everyone know that there's a new item/spell/skill, you're posting to say: "Yay! I found it first! No point what-so-ever yet, but just remember, it was ME!"

No one is saying that discussion of an item is a bad thing.

Of course, no one says that about reading comprehension either and yet the number of people who refuse to practice it is nothing short of astounding.

No, no no Hatch. Trust me, I've been around here long enough to know what good comes from these posts. People ask questions, test things, and sometimes it does turn out that Jon has forgotten to tell us something, or something isn't working how it's meant to. I've seen it often enough.

Yes, there is a certain amount of 'look at me, I've found something you haven't' but that's part of the fun of a changemonth. It's a game after all, these treasure hunts are a big part of the game! ;)

exactly what Johnny said.

They can't ask these questions, run these tests, and point out problems/glitches when the new skill is announced, _with_information, drawbacks, exceptions, etc. when the thread with the new item/skill/spell/effect is posted by _Jonathan_?

After all, he_did_write the code for it, so chances are, he has all the information we need, and will give it to us. And if information isn't provided within an acceptable ammount of time (I don't mean 10-20 seconds people!), then posting about it seems reasonable. But it seems to me, someone would make a thread, and Jon would be one of, if not THE, first replies actually containing useful information...

Hatch, the reason *I* made the numerous amount of posts I did, is although Jon will reveal new stuff, he usually leaves it up to us to figure out what these new toys do.

Like traned percentages on the new Familiar. Or what item properties work with Junction.

Usually, we can wheddle, cajole, sometimes outright beg Jon to clarify ideas we have. But he usually won't volunteer such information. ;)

Treasure hunt, duh, it's fun.

you find it annoying to find out things by yourself?

Spoil sport.

If you go back over the changelogs you'll also see that sometimes Jon 'forgets' to post about some change he has made. We get an 'Ooops' response on occasion. It happens!

I'm off to work now. Have fun!

Possibly for new items such posts aren't essential. But when Jonathan implements a drastic change, he hardly ever hands out the information, a good example is forging.

The forging times and method was worked out by the CB community, even though Jonathan had all the facts, it was up to us to figure it out.

I highly doubt people post up the changes they notice for credit. It's very cynical to view it that way.

You mean ... the discussion that occurs after the Changelog post? The one where Jon creates a thread and then you all go to work? Those posts?

"If you go back over the changelogs you'll also see that sometimes Jon 'forgets' to post about some change he has made. We get an 'Ooops' response on occasion. It happens!"

Maybe so, but give the man a few hours to post it...

"But when Jonathan implements a drastic change, he hardly ever hands out the information"

He DOES state that something has changed tho, no? And while he may not hand out descriptive pamphlets and owner's manuals, he DOES give you, at least, the basic information, no?

Why not at least wait for the basic information to be disclosed?

Where's the usual 'News' post on the new supporter item? ;)

Anyway, my reaosn to support such finding posts is this. Any change in CB is good. Any discussion of possible new items, and their effects is good. It stimulates the community.

When someone keeps an eye on the Stats - Items Overview page, and finds a new item on Jon charcater, the people who enjoy figuring out how game mechanics work can be notified, and get thier teeth stuck into discussing what the item does, and how it could possibly effect strategy.

I see this as a good thing.

/shrug

"When someone keeps an eye on the Stats - Items Overview page, and finds a new item on Jon charcater, the people who enjoy figuring out how game mechanics work can be notified, and get thier teeth stuck into discussing what the item does, and how it could possibly effect strategy. "


You mean by saying, IF it does this, that would make this great. IF it does that, this would be great. IF it does nothing, everything will be great. Wait for the information that you WILL get, then figure things out. Otherwise, let's go find out what kind of music deaf people enjoy the most, and figure out what color blind people prefer. Oooh! I've got it, if a blind/deaf person is holding Metallica's Black Album, EMET would be a great strat!

The Hatchetman, 4:07 AM EST
Why not at least wait for the basic information to be disclosed?

-------

Flamey, 3:52 AM EST
Treasure hunt, duh, it's fun.

Flamey, 3:28 AM EST
why? It's fun.

Xiaz, 3:59 AM EST
I highly doubt people post up the changes they notice for credit. It's very cynical to view it that way.

Johnnywas, 3:54 AM EST
If you go back over the changelogs you'll also see that sometimes Jon 'forgets' to post about some change he has made. We get an 'Ooops' response on occasion. It happens!

QBGentlemanLoser, 3:52 AM EST
is although Jon will reveal new stuff, he usually leaves it up to us to figure out what these new toys do.
Like traned percentages on the new Familiar. Or what item properties work with Junction.



do I really need to copy and paste the majority of the thread?

"You mean by saying, IF it does this, that would make this great. IF it does that, this would be great. IF it does nothing, everything will be great. Wait for the information that you WILL get, then figure things out. Otherwise, let's go find out what kind of music deaf people enjoy the most, and figure out what color blind people prefer. Oooh! I've got it, if a blind/deaf person is holding Metallica's Black Album, EMET would be a great strat!"

It gets people interested and thinking. That in itself is a good thing. Otherwise, all we have to talk about is "That VB is owerpowered isn't it" for another month. ;)

Some people enjoy the 'theorycrafting' behind strategies, and how new items could tweak stuff. Is that a bad thing?

And, for exmaple, by finding out about the HF early, and a coupl of us inking some, we found out about a couple of bugs that Jon was able to then quickly fix. Was that a bad thing?

So basically, your saying.

It is pointless for people to post up their discovery of changes in CB, and they should refrain from doing so until Jonathan has announced it 'officially.'

The irony here is, this thread is equally as pointless - I doubt this will stop anyone doing exactly what you are ranting about in the future.

Sucks, eh?

This thread, however, isn't making a mess of the actual Changelogs.

"Flamey, 3:52 AM EST
Treasure hunt, duh, it's fun.

Flamey, 3:28 AM EST
why? It's fun.

Xiaz, 3:59 AM EST
I highly doubt people post up the changes they notice for credit. It's very cynical to view it that way.

Johnnywas, 3:54 AM EST
If you go back over the changelogs you'll also see that sometimes Jon 'forgets' to post about some change he has made. We get an 'Ooops' response on occasion. It happens!

QBGentlemanLoser, 3:52 AM EST
is although Jon will reveal new stuff, he usually leaves it up to us to figure out what these new toys do.
Like traned percentages on the new Familiar. Or what item properties work with Junction. "



Ummm... thank you? I can only guess that you're bringing things up that've been shot down, as i had a response for all of them.


"Some people enjoy the 'theorycrafting' behind strategies, and how new items could tweak stuff. Is that a bad thing? "

No, but those belong in idea threads, not mixing guesses with facts in a 'New [blank]' thread. All in all, makes things kinda pointless. Not to mention the confusion factor in people that tend not to read EXACTLY what is stated, and take it for what it's worth...

"And, for exmaple, by finding out about the HF early, and a coupl of us inking some, we found out about a couple of bugs that Jon was able to then quickly fix. Was that a bad thing?"

Great point. As this surely wouldn't have been discovered when Jon posted, announcing the new familiar...

"The irony here is, this thread is equally as pointless - I doubt this will stop anyone doing exactly what you are ranting about in the future."

like Bast said, I'm not crapping up the Changelog. Secondly, i never expected to accomplish anything by this. As I said in my original post:

"I acknowledge this is a rant. I understand if it should get deleted. I'm just happy, now that I know, it was said. Thank you for your time and annoyance."

Bast, then maybe the problem is Admin shouldn't move general posts into chagelogs posts? I have no problem with that. But after Jons initial Changelog post (always very useful as it's coherant information that doesn't get lost as more replies hit the thread), unless you stop everyone posting in changelog threads, they will become just as 'cluttered' as normal general posts.

Hatchet. The bug was found and fixed while only a few people had inked a HF. Isn't this better than being found later on, after a general announcement, when more people had been using one for longer?

Face it Hatch. We can't read or write, we have no patience. We like to imagine as much as know. We are people who_don't_read_the_manual.

:)

"But after Jons initial Changelog post (always very useful as it's coherant information that doesn't get lost as more replies hit the thread), unless you stop everyone posting in changelog threads, they will become just as 'cluttered' as normal general posts."

For one, Jon's*. Secondly, at least that thread has solid info to go on.

"Face it Hatch. We can't read or write, we have no patience. We like to imagine as much as know. We are people who_don't_read_the_manual."

Maybe not. But I've now, unintentionally, generated more replies to a thread than 4 of the 6 current changelog threads. All with no chance of profit. :-P. But that's beside the point.

Hahahahaha!

Sure sign you're running out of coutners when you attack me spelling and grammer! :P

I've posted solid info to go on on the HF. 50% STR and DEX. Easily found out through our own efforts, which Jon likes us to use. ;)

"Sure sign you're running out of coutners when you attack me spelling and grammer! :P"

counters* and grammar*... Ironic or on purpose?

"I've posted solid info to go on on the HF. 50% STR and DEX. Easily found out through our own efforts, which Jon likes us to use. ;) "

Maybe so, but wouldn't he have said something about the effects of the HF in HIS Changelog post? Wait for it to come out of the machine befor you eat the candy!

Ah... It's just occured to me you might have been using Jon's* for emphasis, and not to correct me. ;) *sheepish*

In that case, what difference does it make if *I* post the HF gets 50% STR and DEX, or Jon does? Does it make it any more right coming from Jon?

It seems you're whinging, and you don't really want answers, only attention.


stop.

"Maybe so, but wouldn't he have said something about the effects of the HF in HIS Changelog post? Wait for it to come out of the machine befor you eat the candy!"

I just looked, but can't find a changelog post where Jon stats the ratio of stats the ToJ trains.

If it wasn't posted for the first familiar, why do you expect it to be posted for the newest one? When we can use our own initiative and effort to find that infor for ourselves?

Hatch, I would love for Jon to give us more info. I really would. ;) But generally, if we can find it or work it out ourselves, Jon leaves it for us to do. No spoon feeding.

I was correcting you :-P

"In that case, what difference does it make if *I* post the HF gets 50% STR and DEX, or Jon does? Does it make it any more right coming from Jon? "

Is that your only example? It seems sound on the surface, but strays from my original point:

"Jonathan seems perfectly capable of announcing things when necesary, so why do people insist on making forums about it?"

You are still confusing "more" with "events in time".

"Jonathan seems perfectly capable of announcing things when necesary, so why do people insist on making forums about it?"

Does it REALLY MATTER?

Shut up.

It's "necessary".

"Flamey isn't allowed to post anymore 'til he understands the discussion"

I agree with Hatchet and Bast here.
Fine, once you've worked it out you can post the stats of the new item but if all you want to do is say you've found one and guess what it does, just wait a couple of days.
The reason they are on Jon's character is because they aren't finished yet and most replies in the threads I see are along the lines of "So Jon, what is this?".
Yes, he misses a few important things but is it really so hard to wait that short amount of time for him to announce it before you test it and find the bugs? I really can't see that large a percentage of users gambling on the item even that soon after the official word.
Wait until you can give the actual information rather than the information from the first draft that isn't even finished yet.

Perhaps people are simply ranting, just as you are.

This is like a stern father who forbids his children to talk about their new christmas present and tell them to read the sometimes-helpful but usually-useless manual instead. Better yet, sometimes it doesn't even come with an instruction manual...

All you have to do is not read the posts if it displeases you so.

Why do people keep using examples which display discussion of something *after* the fact.
By all means discuss what it actually is after the fact and how good or bad it is but at least wait until there is a clear definition.
I'm not saying 'read the manual', I'm saying 'know what you're talking about before creating yet another thread'

No, this is more like going to Toys 'R' Us and stealing the instruction manuals out of everybody else's toys. And trying to play with toys, not given to you, without their batteries.

Thank you Zoglog! You put it into terms even the thickest of people can't help but understand! :-P

lol Bast.

I'm with Bast on this one... I understand Jonathan has been very busy, so that makes news/posts more sporadic, but the announcements for these latest changes have been inconsistent and random as compared to previous changemonths and announcements. For one, I see a couple dozen people with HoCs, and yet see no "New supporter item" link. How exactly does that happen?

If nothing else, having one person start the threads, no matter how cryptic he is, is better than having 20 changelog posts all started by different people. Consistency is kinda sorta important, folks.

We have five days to mess with training, and some folks already have the new items. I don't recall that ever happening before?

:) Then General posts shouldn't be moved to Changelog.