HoCs Bug (in General)

Relic January 11 2007 9:24 PM EST

I am getting pretty regular 7 hits in the first round of ranged with my HoCs equipped, I know that my pth is not allowing me to get those in a single attack in the round, so the double attack is working it appears. However, I am not moving to the next minion after the first one is dead. I can give numerous examples of this happening. Jonathan can you please look into this and verify if it is supposed to work this way or am I misunderstanding how the HoCs is supposed to work.

TheHatchetman January 11 2007 9:31 PM EST

I thought once your tank attacked an enemy minion, it was locked onto that minion until the end of the round...

Atomicboy [The Knighthood] January 11 2007 9:33 PM EST

the hoc works that way for tanks. For MM users they get to switch targets. So its working fine.

Relic January 11 2007 9:35 PM EST

It is if you only do a single _attack_ in a given round. However, with a _double_ attack like the HoCs affords, the target would/should be figured out after the _first_ attack was done, so that you don't just pummel an opposing player 7 times without moving on.

Relic January 11 2007 9:36 PM EST

So a mage can change targets if they get multiple attacks, but a Tank can't? That seems really stupid to me. It is just as easy for a Tank to aim at a different minion as it is for a Mage to aim their DD at another minion.

Miandrital January 11 2007 9:39 PM EST

/me agrees with Glory. Especially since the HoC really gives the equivalent of an extra ranged round.

TheHatchetman January 11 2007 9:41 PM EST

Missiles are magical... they find alive targets :-P I guess the FB and CoC are fired at knee-level and up, meaning those already fallen, wont get hit either..

Relic January 11 2007 9:46 PM EST

If the HoCs does only benefit mages in regard to giving the ability to target multiple minions in a given round, it should do the same for Tanks, or that little perk should be removed. It is way too powerful to not be shared by both strategies.

MissingNo January 11 2007 10:13 PM EST

Oh come on! What a small thing to even mention. So mages get one small little perk and of course the tanks cry unfairness. I mean, wow. And honestly, it's not as powerful as you might think. Tanks with their bows and SoDs and awesome damage slaughter me, even though I have 2 HoCs. And I always thought of it as the archer firing multiple arrows at one time, not reloading and reaiming each time.

Relic January 11 2007 10:19 PM EST

I hate to belabor the point further but are you kidding me? Mages DO NOT MISS, with Evasion, Tanks can miss the entire first round and not even get a double attack. Don't cry foul to me when it is guaranteed you can pummel and kill two opponents in one round with a mage and completely miss them both as a tank.

horseguy001 January 11 2007 10:19 PM EST

1. You are not well defended against bows. The extra round archers gets is of no concern to a def dex of 1 mil x 3 in my case
2. Mages get an extra round to fire, in addition to the TSA losing it's magic reduction, which is a HUGE damage increase. We are talking *at least* double here, it's not a tiny increase at all.

I think its perfectly fair for archers to be able to switch targets, since they are not the easiest to hit on the first round of range anyways.

Hyrule Castle January 11 2007 10:38 PM EST

but mages can not come close to getting off 7 shots,... with the massive power of the bows... SOD's and EXP shots expecially... being able to hit 7 times, and keep moving between targets...

Lil overpowered for me....

I think that the way it is now is fine... however if it does get changed, i say mages should be able to get TWO! extra rounds, so we can get somewhat close... to the 7-23 shots an archer can shoot per round

Lochnivar January 11 2007 10:39 PM EST

I think it is a little dramatic to complain about archer's not getting to switch targets. A bow with archery and a good size PTH and dex can pull off triple hits in the first round of ranged.
The top MM in the game hits.... once, and gets nailed by AMF.
A character with just over half the MPR I have (and twice as many minions) can inflict as much damage with his Elbow per hit as I can with the a top 10 MM, without the fear of AMF backlash.
So 3 times the damage with no downside (aside from the NW, etc that always enters the tank v mage debate) and it is concluded that the MM is overpowered for switching targets?
My healthy little MM mage seldom if ever ices 2 targets in the first round with this change.

MissingNo January 11 2007 10:43 PM EST

I think you'll have the right to complain once archers take a significant amount of damage most of the time from their own attacks. Oh yes, I can kill 2 enemies in 1 round but somehow with 2 mages, both with HoCs, 1 with Junction, and a SF, I still lose so much of the time?

noneedforthese January 11 2007 11:43 PM EST

Not another tanks versus mages debate! xP Apples and oranges anyone?

Relic January 11 2007 11:45 PM EST

"I think you'll have the right to complain once archers take a significant amount of damage most of the time from their own attacks."

Umm, I get murdered by GA. What do you call that? Friendly love tapping?

Lochnivar January 11 2007 11:57 PM EST

True, but GA nails mages too.
A good size DM will take away much of the GA punishment.
There is no similar way to reduce the AMF backlash.

Flamey January 12 2007 3:10 AM EST

last time I checked, HoC gives -2% to DD.

TheHatchetman January 12 2007 3:16 AM EST

- 2% to DD is a small penalty, unless the fight goes 49 rounds somehow... But, as far as archers switching targets, to support Lochnivar's point:

I used a SFBM until 260k MPR. At 320k MPR, my tank was hitting harder with an ELB at ~25% of weapon allowance than my FB mage was...

Flamey January 12 2007 3:25 AM EST

Flamey, 3:10 AM EST
last time I checked, HoC gives -2% to DD.

My point being, maybe that's why Archers don't change targets? Because Mages get a penalty and all Archers have to lose is a HoE, which isn't all that smashing and flashing.

The Hatchetman, 3:16 AM EST
I used a SFBM until 260k MPR. At 320k MPR, my tank was hitting harder with an ELB at ~25% of weapon allowance than my FB mage was...

Spread damage. is this comparison hitting against a single minion team? Get back to me, It should be pretty even, Spread damage pretty much owns.

So many people are whining about SoD and ex shots, the spread is reduced damage too, so I think it's safe to say this:

Spread Damage = Ownage.


TheHatchetman January 12 2007 3:31 AM EST

my numbers were based on fighting a single minion team. Depending on AC of opposing minions, numbers were also close against multi-minion teams. And yes, spread damage is great... ForgeHog would be so much more difficult otherwise. (Or if he reverted one of those [1.4m?] EC's to AMF...)

Flamey January 12 2007 3:45 AM EST

Magical is harder to get reduced as well, seeing as Base AC doesn't count.

My good friend, let's not get into a Tank and Mage debate. :)

They're pretty balanced, with their Highs and Lows.

On topic, I don't mind what happens, the HoC seems like a Mage item, but they more penalty to it. So, they get a bigger Advantage AND Disadvantage to it, than Tanks.


TheHatchetman January 12 2007 3:52 AM EST

Mages using HoC also help out heavy AMF users, slighlty lowering its lvl making AMF more powerful, and, opening them to take another shot of AMF. While the mage is dealing almost double damage, it is also more than doubling damage taken.
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