FDA says cloned animals are OK to eat (in Off-topic)
What do you guys think?
This would be a HUGE break for farmers. But I'm kinda weary on whether or not this will taste like the original, lol.
I'm with P.E.T.A:
January 21 2007 9:08 PM EST
Great, now they'll all taste like chicken !
January 21 2007 9:12 PM EST
I'm of the: "If it looks like a duck and tastes like a duck, then it's a duck..."
Especially if it started from "birth" that way. How could it be anything else?
It is a clone which means that the genetical structure will be identical to the original which of course means it will taste like the original sp :)
I'm also from the 'who cares?' society, as I was with the whole issue with GM albeit a different scenario.
I'm also all for it due to the probability of cheaper meat, my only issue being that farmers will have less bargaining power meaning that the agricultural market could take yet another bad hit.
January 21 2007 9:24 PM EST
The world doesn't have much more than 50 years to live, if that... Enjoy it while you can :)
January 21 2007 9:26 PM EST
"I'm also from the 'who cares?' society"
If it's exactly the same, then why cry about it?
Are people looking to argue nowadays?
P.S. Cloning didn't kill my tabs :P
The world, or the human race? ;)
January 21 2007 9:28 PM EST
Both! We're killing two birds with one stone! ;)
January 21 2007 9:38 PM EST
/me agrees with Flamey on this one. Wow... Man will end the world, and bring everything with him... Only thing that'll be left is ex-wives and roaches... I predict another few years before the roaches die out... Suicides...
I want my hamburger genetically altered to taste better : )
How could a hamburger taste better ? If you changed the taste enough to actually be better would it still taste like beef ?Why not just feed them barley instead of corn ,you get a slightly nutty flavor at least in pork .
wow, i guess i'm the only vegetarian here...
a big issue for me is how unsanitary [not to mention how unethical] the meat industry is already- i'm far more in favor of people hunting their own wild game. but as long as things don't get worse, i'm all for cloning. i'm just afraid cloned animals will be treated even less like living creatures than they already are.
Yes, like it or not, that burger was once a living creature, and the cloned cows were alive once too.
[waits for the flames]
January 22 2007 3:13 PM EST
No flames here, but if you think fruits and vegetables are "clean", well, I'm not sure what to say... Unless you grow it yourself or pay top dollar for "organic" foods that you know truly are free of chemicals, etc, plant materials are just as dirty as animal materials.
And plants are killed rather inhumanely, they should be carefully removed from the ground rather than being ripped out or hacked to pieces with scythes/harvesters if that is going to be the argument towards being vegetarian.
That sap coming out of your celery, that's their blood but it's ok because it doesn't have a face (some people say it isn't living but how can plants not be living things?) and who is to say they don't have emotions?
On the cleanliness side of things, plants and animals are as dirty and unkept as each other while both have their equally better options. Plants have their organic brethrin while poultry and livestock have their 'free-range' partners.
I'm not trying to directly insult you SaintChristopher but as you can see, I myself find vegetarians a rather hypocritical group of people in general.
Broccoli tastes like broccoli. But meat tastes like murder, and murder tastes pretty god darn good!
January 22 2007 5:42 PM EST
This question needs to be examined from all sides.
Is it ok for cloned animals to eat people?
If you say 'NO' then clearly it is an unjust situation for the cloned animals.
I think it can only be fair for people to eat cloned animals if cloned animals can eat people....
Clone a couple of Nile crocodiles and I'm all for it!
Oh, and that sound of a knife going through a carrot, if played back and slowed down, sounds like a scream.
My favorite kind of discussion, one without a correct answer. I look at it like this. If it has a soul, then it deserves all the rights and humane treatment humans deserve. If it does not, then there is no such thing as being inhumane. I mean, first off, I do not believe any animal has a soul, so yah that's your dog scruffy and your cat matilda, as well as every cow, pig and chicken I ever ate. This is how I differentiate man from beast, via the soul. It is how I am able to and consider myself to be above and better than the beasts on this planet.
Now as SOON as you give one animal a soul, any animal, in my opinion, you are either a) God and able to discern the souless from those with a soul, or b) incapable of doing virtually any interaction with your planet, because if one animal has a soul then they all do (just like if one human has a soul, me, then you all do)
Right now there are literally hundreds of thousands of little bugs crawling all over the inside and out side of your body, from dust mites, to bateria to parasites. You kill them indiscriminately with even the most careful of motions or efforts. Then consider the bugs and such that you kill by the thousands daily without a glance to the floor. You know their is a sect of Buddhism that walk with a broom in front of them, carefully sweeping where they will walk, before stepping, to make sure they do not accidently kill precious life. It is almost humorous considering the number of similarly classified bugs they kill inside and out side of their own bodies, but hey, I am sure they would say, yah well so what, I still kill less using my method than you do, and they would be right.
So there you go, I do not care if the meat is flayed from the flesh of a naturally born cow, or a cloned cow, either way makes no difference to me, they are all souless and have no right to humane treatment, at least not a god given right (one could argue on the pain and suffering side, but that is a different issue honestly, and one that has about as much meaning to me as if they have a soul)
In the end, it is to each their own. But I sleep well at night knowing the burger slowly digestiing in my stomach was taken from a cow whose only known existance was filled with no more purpose than to end up on my Big Mac.
And if you get into vegatable having a soul, well then that would basically cover all living things. So do not cut that grass, nor do anything other than hover in mid air, because you are killing soul filled creatures by the millions. If they have no soul, then who cares, do you care how you treated that rock you found on the ground were you careful not to injure it? Of course not, why, because it is souless, any other reason is either scientific rhetoric, or way left libralism in heavy need of a dose of reality.
One man's opinion, neither right nor wrong, not better than your opinion or worse. It simply exists as mine, and to be honest, I do very little hand wringing for it ;)
January 22 2007 6:18 PM EST
I'm in total agreement with Sefton.
I'd also like to note the number of innocent bunnies and mice ruthlessly torn to shreds by machines harvesting wheat and other vegetables each day.
Think of the bunnies.
January 22 2007 11:23 PM EST
The FDA has said that a lot of things were safe to eat/smoke/drink when they first came out, and then after more studies had been done on these items, they took them all off the shelves for medical reasons.
Plants need water to survive, but did you know that if you boil water in the microwave, and feed the plant the water, the plant will die. It will no longer be able to recognize it as being water. I am just worried that the cloned meats might be the same, with the incubation and other processes done to it.
I think we should be able to eat the clones from the Star Wars movies. Yum!
I don't claim perfection, nor do i claim to lead a 100% cruelty free life, i just do the best i can. And yes, I do buy organic vegetables and fruit.
It's just what I do, i don't expect anyone else to follow my lead, just as i don't expect everyone to boycott McDonald's, Wal-Mart, or Disney.
I do the things I do for my own reasons.
And I'm not going to point my finger and scream "murderer!" just because you had a chicken sandwich for lunch. The crazy folks at PETA take these things a step or three too far.
So I say, clone away, and eat well. If it alleviates world starvation, it's worth looking into.
Sefton, what is a soul? ;)
Oh, and trees have 'emotional' responses to pain. ;)
January 24 2007 7:27 AM EST
I think somebody should set up a reality tv show 'Feed The World'; kind of like a cross between the Pop Idol/American Idol/Big Brother type shows and Soylent Green.
All those people who long to be famous for no other reason than being famous, all those 100s of 1000s of people can go to this huge 'tv studio' to audition. So they get to do their little dance, or have an argument on screen, take their clothes off or whatever they think is their party piece. Then straight into the mincer.
No more need to bulldoze the rain forests to provide grazing land for the herds that provide the beef for your burgers. Would cut the worlds population down as well, and there's an never ending supply of idiots who want to be in those reality shows.
So the next time you're watching some talentless nobody singing a tuneless version of 'Wind Beneath My Wings' just think; instead of serving at McDonalds once the show is finished, they could be served.
Fries with that?
I like this idea a lot. The nasty side effects that long term cannibalism brings will just ensure more "contestants".
When I was in college, I did a persuasive speech for a class on why we should ban professional sports in favor of gladiatorial combat and legalize state-ran cannibalism.
Think about- how much revenue does a sports team make? Millions, if not billions of dollars. How much money do we have tied up in prison costs for the TRULY sick and depraved [we won't throw you to the lions for tax evasion, but the serial rapist / murderer on the other hand...]
Now imagine if we could use all those dead bodies for something productive!
Soylent Green is people!
/me watches the number of people in carnage with something edible in their name and wonders if that makes them more edible. :-)
Man I eat enough pork without getting into long pork.Lets just leave that stuff to myth and survival .
LOL GL I would like to see the data that supports the concept that trees have an emotional response to pain. From what I can tell in examining the simple interior make up of every plant on the planet, they do not have a structure in place to even register pain, let alone emotionally respond to it. They do have a structure that allows the to react to damage in their system, but that reaction is for survival, not emotional pain :)
As far as what is a soul, I will use typical religious logic, and answer it with its own definition, and that is a soul is that which separates man from beast :)
it doesnt matter if its original or not, im going turn it into poo!
*sigh* and that's why i don't turn to religion when i want answers.
You can always fall back on either "because that's what the bible says" or "i don't need proof, that's what faith is for".
On the other hand, i'm just a jaded cynic, more power to those of you who have found some spiritual meaning.
Sef, I read it ages and ages ago. It went something along the lines of sap release, or tree rings, or something they do. Only when their bark is cut. If I can dig anything out about it, I will. ;)
As for souls, bah! So it seperates man from beast. What exactly does it do? :/
LOL and the tree making sap to fill cut bark has nothing to do with the fact that the bark is protection for the soft wood underneath, and the sap fills in the cut (if its lucky trees are not smart) and thus provides protection from parasites and various insects that do just fine with the wood but have trouble with the bark? I know I know, the sap does not always form in position to fill cut bark, but this because the tree is not "smart" enough to tell the sap where to form, so it has to get lucky. A trick of million of years of evolution, but certainly not crying.
Well in context of this post, your soul allows you to eat the souless animals. If it has a soul, that is murder, if it does not that is food. All humans have souls so killing them is murder, all animals do not so they are food :)
And so that we are clear SaintChristopher, I am fairly certain that no organized religion would lay claim to my version of it. I made my own religion and I have deemed it Logical Religion. It starts neither with the bible or the koran or the torah, but with logic, and the only faith it creates falls from logical progression. My reason for the circular argument (which is a logical fallacy) was to tease GL :)
I figured :)
But it set me up for that little quip.
Much respect for finding your own way. I've been searching for truth over the past 11 years or so, and thus far, atheism is in the lead, followed by Buddhism and some of the philosophical roots behind modern Wicca.
i think drop precious cargo has put it best.
January 27 2007 1:31 AM EST
i'm ganna agree with sefton on this topic. Because he`s using logic, not fantasy. Who needs wishful thinklng? Not me.
January 27 2007 9:15 AM EST
Even though places like the FDA are supposed to be 'independent', they themselves still get sponsored to the tune of thousands, perhaps millions, of $ by the food companies (or the FDA is lobbied by politicians who are), so the 'independent' tag doesn't really fit very easily to start off with.
I reckon that cloned foods are okay...
Thousands of people starve to death every year due to lack of food (e.g. their country doesn't get enough rain), so producing cloned food and giving it away to poor people who would otherwise starve is (IMHO) a great idea.
Of course, you need all the other things in place too, such as no civil war, some sort of a stable government, etc., but giving free food to their entire country would be a good start (as there'd be less for them to fight over, ergo more chance of stable life, etc).
As for 'souls':
To start off with, I've got to say that I'm NOT preaching and I would never try to go out of my way to try to change anyone's minds...you're all free- thinkers and it's up to you.
However, the flip-side of this is that no-one should do this to me in return, either.
All of the following is IMHO...just trying to add to the debate and give a different side to things, as opposed to trying to convince anybody...
I think maybe sometimes we (as humans) confuse 'soul' with 'consciousness'..or maybe Humanity (as a singular entity) just hasn't found the right words yet to come to terms with what happens when the mortal body dies.
Like Roy from Blade Runner, I think all of us feel that we don't have enough time...that we would turn everything on it's head for just one more minute of life...it is our hope and tenacity to cling onto life which is both one of Humanity's biggest boons and also one of it's biggest set-backs.
As for 'souls' I think it depends on what you define as a 'soul' as being...and we've all probably got 1001 theories on what that is.
What I mean is most people treat children with respect as they are (essentially) baby adults (ergo with a soul already, regardless of when you think they receive this). However, some people treat human children as 'them' rather than as 'he' or 'she'...
Others think that anything on Earth is just there for them to kill...
Personally, I think it's down to how animals interact with humans as to whether they have a 'soul' or not.
I'm NOT saying I think that there's some sort of magical process or transformation where a (supposedly 'soulless') animal gains a soul just by being around people...
HOWEVER, I know that most animals have personalities and also that my little ones who have passed over still come back to see me when they can.
I say MOST animals...For me, I'd call this the ones who are domesticated or who have independent thought.
Therefore we're not talking about plants, nor insects, nor most fishes, having 'souls' at all.
Dolphins, Sharks and Whales? = Yes
Cats? = Yes
Dogs? = Yes
Horses? = Yes
Pigs? = Yes
Sheep? = Yes
Cows? = Yes
Rodents in packs? = No (but Yes if they are pets)
Virtually all fish, insects and plants? = No, but these have a collective consciousness to Gaia anyway, so they don't need individual souls.
Dolphins, Sharks and Whales? = Yes
If you ask me how I know that my little ones have come back to see me, it is because I have seen them and touched them.
If I consulted someone with any talent (e.g. spiritualist, medium, religious leader, etc.) and it was a human person who is trying to contact me, they'd say it was via the medium of their soul....
Therefore (although I respect people's own views), if both of you have to have a soul in order to contact each other from either side, I personally have a really hard time trying to see how it is NOT my little one's souls helping them to contact me.
Ergo, some animals have souls.
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