Getting beaten by the same people... (in General)


ANDYGORN January 28 2007 6:13 AM EST

Hi!
I've been a member of CB since Dec 2006 and have been really enjoying it so far.
However, I'm coming across a BIG fly-in-the-ointment in so far as I keep getting battled repeatedly by the same people (who often have FAR higher scores than I do) over and over again and losing a huge amount of points as a result.

Let me give you the full picture:
I'm a member of the Endless Rebellion Clan and until about early January we always used to be in the top 61 (e.g. about 40th place-ish).
Then the owner of the list left the clan and I was in charge (which was no problem whatsoever).

Since January, however, I have been constantly battled by the same 5 or 6 people (no names) from MUCH higher Clans with bigger scores than me and I'm losing a catastrophic amount of points each and every day...often, I have to spend my 160 BA just trying to get back to the points score I had the previous day.
As a result, not only am I losing points, but my Clan is taking huge hits off these other people.
As a result, my clan is now 3rd of 4th from bottom in the entire list (whereas we always used to be on the 1st page).

My Clan currently consists of myself (playing since Dec'06) and a lot of more recent players (which is fine too, as they're a great bunch of people), but because we're all new to the Clan we need to build ourselves up...being the person with the highest score in the Clan, I'm trying to do my best to help my newer players as much as possible to try to build the Clan up again and to show the that -if you work at it- CB is very rewarding (which I have found to be the case myself).

However, the negative points which I get from losing to these 5 or 6 people constantly are severely outweighing the points that the other Clan members earn.

My way of playing has always to try to keep things fair, so I try to play everyone in a list only 2-4 times a day and when I've had a couple of battles against everyone in this list, I move up to the next list which is higher up...I think that this is only fair and it keeps a bit of variety so that everyone gets a battle every so often.

However, I recently got up to 130,000-ish one night, logged off and when I logged on again 6 hours later my score was at approx. 67,000 due to the same people hitting me every 2 minutes or so....usually each between 10 -> 40 battles against me each night...
Yesterday, having been on CB about 4 or 5 times that day in an effort to build things up for my week's losses, I was on about 180,000...yet, when I logged in this morning, I found that I've started the day on a score of around 130,000.

I though that this problem would go away and I'd hoped that it was just an isolated incident, but this has now happened each and every day for about the last 3 weeks...each day, I'm losing a score of around 50,000 -> 70,000 from when I last logged in the previous day.

We've already got a counter which says when we have run out of BA and which prevents us from battling until we've waited or paid some $ for extra BA.
Just to ask of there is any way in which we can have a something which prevents you battling the same opponent more often than (say) 10 times during a 24hour period???
This would keep it SO much fairer and mean that people with huge scores cannot just continuously keep picking on the weakers player and racking up points (because there is no way that they can be defeated by the other player).

The thing is, I'm not particularly asking this for myself:
I'm afraid that (with the Clan as a whole getting dragged down by these 5 or 6 same people beating up on me all the time) the newer players in my Clan will lose heart in CB and think that there's no point in them being part of a Clan, trying to learn about CB and battling hard (which they ARE doing) if they're not going to get any recognition for it in terms of Clan bonus.
Also that they're only going to see that there are people here who are very happy to continually beat up on you and dramatically reduce your score each and every single day over a prolonged period just because they CAN...

Most of the people who are constantly fighting me are MUCH higher score than I am, so I have next to no chance of winning and redressing the balance...
Ultimately, to me, this is a form of bullying and should be stopped.

But happy to hear what anyone else's thought are.
andygorn

bartjan January 28 2007 6:32 AM EST

First, farming is a fact of (clan) life.

But in your case, here lies the problem:
Totals: 123 560 19 29 16.83

These numbers are from your 24h battle summary. From all the battles *you* started, you lost 560 out of 731, only winning 16.83%. First improve this, before blaming anything else.

Silatt January 28 2007 6:37 AM EST

Heh, better get prepared for it man, that's how clan life is. You are always working to get more cps while folks are taking them from you. If this seems unfair you want think about not joining a clan, as it's never going to end. There's always going to be somebody higher than you that farms you. Some people don't even care about the rewards and merely do it for the CPs.

swaggpy January 28 2007 7:00 AM EST

I'm not in a clan and i get farmed Totals: 362

Shelingar January 28 2007 9:13 AM EST

Part 1: Score

I'll probably get corrected here as I've only come back to CB recently and wasn't around long before, but my take on this is that is that your own score is largely irrelevant except for those people attacking you, as that determines the challenge bonus they get fighting you.

My own score goes up and down quite a bit, and it really doesn't matter. It depends largely on who you target as your score will tend to approach the score of the largest target you attack and win against. If you lose a battle you lose score and it matters not whether that is a battle you started or one someone started against you.

The thing to keep in focus are your challenge bonus when fighting and your own MPR/PR. Growth in MPR shows you are progressing. The challenge bonus tells you how well your strategy is going and whether you need to look for new targets.

(Just as a personal aside, I try to keep my challenge bonus above 90%, at least for now)

The quickest way to boost your score is to find someone with a much higher score that you can beat consistently. I actually like it when lots of people attack me, particularly when I get the odd win or stalemate in. - free experience.

Part 2: Clan Score

Clan score is separate to your own score. Fighting in clans makes a difference if you spend most of your BA fighting (as opposed to say forging). Members of the top clan get a bonus of 15% and it scales down to the bottom of the "top" clans. I personally am not really focusing on the clan bonus. It is an extra to my challenge bonus, but not the deciding factor in who I fight. I started out as a solo clan precisely because I didn't want to commit to a certain amount of clan cps. A couple have joined me in the last week and now we fairly consistently get a 10-13% bonus from the clan.

If you want to maximise your clan score you need to fight (and win) against other fighting clan members. I believe you get 1 point for fighting a non clan member (or economic clan member), 2 points for a clan member not in the top 61 clans and 3 points for beating a clan member in the top 61 clans.

So maximising clan score requires only targeting those people in the top 61 clans. Something I don't bother with personally.

But again don't stress about it. Losing score and losing clan score are just part and parcel of the game (this last week for example I've lost on average about 1000 clan score a day or more to people farming me, which would make it hard to get much of a bonus if I didn't buy BA most days) ... and shouldn't detract from your enjoyment.

ANDYGORN January 28 2007 9:21 AM EST

Bartjan:

Did you even look at the number of opponents my minions have had over the last 1,000 battles?
Did you see who's been attacking me time and time again and then look at their scores compared to mine??
No, I thought not.
If you're going to tell a story, please at least make sure it's the whole story, rather than just half of it...

I'm NOT saying that I don't lose when I'm battling online.
However, when I'm online, I can at least keep track of the points I've lost and gained (and I've still ended up at 180,00 ish despite this...and this is OKAY with me).
Unlike some people here, I don't actually play this game in order to get as many victories in the least time.
I play this game to fight a variety of opponents and to test my tactics against other people's minions (and to use the XP + $ from battles to try different combinations of tactics and to improve my minions when and where I need to).

The point that I'm trying to make is that I lose 50,000 + points per night when I'm NOT online to people who power-game with their uber-powered minions to continually kill me time after time.

To reduce it down to your reply of:
"Well you should win more games when you're online" is just crass in the extreme and you've completely missed the point.

QBJohnnywas January 28 2007 9:47 AM EST

Andy, calm yourself. This isn't anything to get stressed over. ;)


Ignore the following things: your own score. Being attacked by others. Neither matter where your character is concerned. If you are in a clan you will get attacked. In order to get clan points of any kind you need to attack people in other clans. In some parts of the score range there are not many clan members. So those who are there will be attacked continuously. More clan members you have in your fightlist you can beat, the more clan points you get, the better chance you have of getting the clan bonuses.

As your character improves and grows you may start to see the people who attack you start to lose. There is a point when you are being attacked continuously where it starts to play in your favour. You will log on at some point and see that your score has risen and you have money and xp rewards sitting there. And you won't have done a thing except put up with being attacked.


Score is actually no indication of how well you are doing. Well, your score is no indication. The score of those you can beat is the indicator. Fight as high as you can and keep as high a challenge bonus as you can.


Finally, you don't have to be in a clan. You will see if you were to drop out of the clan you won't get attacked very much at all.


Oh, and welcome to CB!

bartjan January 28 2007 9:48 AM EST

No, I did not look at who's attacking you. I'm getting farmed 4 times as heavy as you, and don't consider that abnormally high.

Your gross clan score is the points *you* score for your clan; whatever points other characters take away from you is ignored from this stat. If you take a look at the week's MVP list, you will find yourself around the 193th place. This is because you lose so many fights. Also, this is perhaps also caused by not fighting all BA and/or buying all BA each day.

Normally it shouldn't be difficult to counter the 3319 points other clans have taken from you last week. All it takes is 3.5 sets of BA a day (if fighting random opponents) or slightly over 1 set of BA (if only fighting against bonus clans, with your favorites list). If you are unable to achieve this (should take you about an hour each day), then IMHO you have no reason at all to complain about clan farming.

Besides bad for your clan, losing fights also means you're hurting your own progress, as battle rewards are much higher for won fights as they are for lost fights.

QBOddBird January 28 2007 10:09 AM EST

Agreed. Losing your battles is killing it for you...I suggest finding a spot on your list where there are several people you can hit and win, and go down it killing those for your Clan Points. If you win all your fights, you make more money/exp rewards, you don't lose CPs for a lost attack, you make a ton more overall CP....you're much better off selecting a number of opponents in your list as targets for clanning and attacking them solely (which, coincidentally, is exactly what is happening to you. Fight fire with fire!)

Mikel January 28 2007 10:14 AM EST

Power Score is irrelevant to clan fighting. It matters only towards your personal rewards bonus, the formula is: Their Power Score vs Your MPR determines your challenge bonus.

You need to win more fights than you lose, it's ok to explore and see what strat you can beat, but when you are winning only 1/3 of the battles you started, then you need to change up and find some people that you can beat in 1 attempt, not 3-4 attempts.

Clan points, you lose clan points when you start a fight a lose vs other clan members. It is difficult to get negative clan points unless you are helping yourself along or not very active. In your case, you are giving away clan points to others by attacking and losing to them. For clan fighting, you should be winning 90-95% of the fights you start.

I would suggest you fight some people and if you can beat them, add them to your favorites. Once your favorites gets up to about 10 or so people, switch over to it and start fighting those people constantly to get your Clan Points back up and it will help your own character grow faster. By doing this, you will become stronger and can beat on those that have been beating on you.

With as small as you are, be sure to update your fight list every 24 hours to keep your challenge bonus high for even faster growth.

Lastly, Power Score pumping is only relevant to those in the top 10 as they get no negatives to hitting down. So someone in the top 12 can hit on someone above them a couple of times to get that negative bonus turned off.

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] January 28 2007 10:38 AM EST

"the formula is: Their Power Score vs Your MPR determines your challenge bonus. " This is actually Opponent's Score vs. Your PR.

Also, Andy, the "favorites list" mentioned, which makes effective clanfighting truly possible, is a benefit of supportership. You should look into it, if you are concerned about your clanpoints.

(On an unrelated note, someone thinks you should check your PC for adware. ;-) )

Mikel January 28 2007 11:00 AM EST

Thanks for the PR correction, I'm half asleep and didn't realize he also wasn't a supporter. I need coffee.....

swaggpy January 28 2007 12:01 PM EST

you a fight every 10 maybe if your lucky and 4 tanks is expensive as hell

Thraklight Resonance January 28 2007 12:34 PM EST

You may wish to consider switching your light crossbow on your minion with archery with the bow on your minion with bloodlust. You may also want to use the help menu to read up on such challenging topics as challenge bonus and pr weight.

Fanta [Fanta's Forge] January 28 2007 12:49 PM EST

Yeah, 4 tanks...pretty hard to manage. You'd probably only want one main damage dealer in your team, instead of four. It's much cheaper.

And if you don't like to be "bullied," then leave your clan. It's not that hard.

TheHatchetman January 28 2007 1:37 PM EST

"Yeah, 4 tanks...pretty hard to manage. You'd probably only want one main damage dealer in your team, instead of four. It's much cheaper."

I agree with this, and then some. four tanks means:
-Splitting Weapon Allowance over 8 weapons
-Extreme weakness to DM/EC
-Buying ammo for four minions

Furthermore, because you'll constantly be in need off ammo, which means:
-No money to spend on weapon upgrades
-No money for any weapons better than Exec/Katana/Compound
-No money to upgrade Armor
-No money for rare armor

No good armor/weapons means:
-You can kill fewer and fewer people as you go up
-More and more people can kill you
-You will get farmed as long as you're in a clan

Your strategy is a big issue in your negative results. Furthermore, in a clan, you will get farmed, its a fact of life. But on the bright side, when others kill you, you lose nothing but the clan points, you actually get $1...

If you insist on keeping your strategy the same:
-Heaumes are a no-go
-get a ToA or RoS for your team to help out against DM
-Making your BL tanks stand up front to take the first bit of damage, before they can even use their ability, sounds kinda dumb...
-You must realize, you're setting yourself up for disaster

Talion January 28 2007 2:33 PM EST

Since Jonathan is probably too polite to say it, I will...

Become a supporter, then start complaining. Not the other way around.

By becoming a supporter, you could build your own favorites list based on your opponents MPR instead of their score. You would then start winning over 90% (if not 95%) of your challenges.

Or you can continue doing it the hard and play for free.

However, do not complain about having a tough time keeping your score high if you chose the later path. The more you play, the more becoming a supporter becomes mandatory to stay competitive. Also, Jon deserves a measly 10$ for all the work in puts in to this terrific game.

[RX3]Cotillion January 28 2007 2:33 PM EST

I know I'm new and really not in a position to give advice, but maybe you should try renting some gear out to experiment with combinations. All my gear is rented because I'm too poor, but that's okay. :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 29 2007 3:37 AM EST

Andy, don't worry about being farmed. Unless you're takinging so many negative points that your clan will be disbanded (-1000) or your goal is to try to top the Clan Point charts.

Being farmed is a good thing. :) The more people that fight you, the more cash and XP you get.
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