Score/PR ratios: tanks vs mages (in General)

QBsutekh137 February 2 2007 12:51 PM EST

Before I even show the information, the disclaimers:

I have no idea if this means anything. I compared single mages against single tanks to find score/PR ratios. Why? If one or the other consistently has a higher score/PR ratios, then one type is inherently getting better rewards, and I don't see why that should be. Mainly, this would refer to the WA, as that is a way for tanks to "hide" power, and that will manifest itself in better score/PR ratios.

So, I worked down the list of single minions, going through almost the whole first page (mainly in order to find tanks -- they are rarer than single mages). The numbers are hard to analyze. I left out retired characters, but there could still be lots of "dormant" characters. I didn't have the energy to check battle logs and decide on rules for who made it in the list and who didn't. I just started from the top down (another problem, this list is not representative of the whole CB score spectrum) and gathered numbers.

I grabbed score and total PR, and simply checked ratios. As I said, lots more mages than tanks, and single-minion only. Here is what came of it:

Character Score PR ratio Character Score PR ratio
Constant 1,924,508 1,511,880 1.272923777 Queen Beee 2,165,225 2,032,651 1.065222
House Montreve 1,916,590 1,290,894 1.484699751 heat 2,135,470 1,586,941 1.345652
Car-a-Carn 1,826,521 1,143,451 1.597375839 TestF1 1,969,957 1,381,301 1.426161
Bob 1,680,923 729,067 2.305580969 Lord Gothmog 1,933,725 1,467,955 1.317292
Diabolik 1,510,793 876,220 1.724216521 Nascence 1,825,679 1,373,026 1.329675
Stinky (UC) 1,276,726 570,229 2.238970659 Susan Death 1,773,073 1,578,836 1.123025
Elven_Kings 1,265,098 914,465 1.383429656 blackmage 1,534,560 1,186,724 1.293106
The Long Climb 1,172,534 479,903 2.443272911 Sentinel 1,485,464 1,075,537 1.381137
SDS PAGE 1,129,254 1,130,312 0.999063975 StarBaby 1,476,513 876,231 1.685073
King of Pain 1,160,136 334,742 3.465761691 Speckix 1,393,386 1,230,188 1.132661
The Night Spirit 1,004,609 644,083 1.55975084 Tygra 1,344,047 1,221,948 1.099922
El Sir Loco 782,183 317,220 2.465743017 Minni Me 1,296,198 776,357 1.66959
American Solo 612,275 280,327 2.184145658 First Strike 1,294,715 714,505 1.812045
Justonius 631,037 456,284 1.382991733 Faytal 1,222,071 560,042 2.182106
Shatnir 620,295 307,252 2.018847721 Major League 1,212,230 894,772 1.354792
NME 1,208,781 924,719 1.307187
AVERAGE 1.901784981 Sky Demon 1,180,251 907,504 1.300546
Riffwraith 1,157,367 815,873 1.418563
Fizban 1,067,696 676,263 1.578818
kevinLeong 1,045,544 434,272 2.407579
The Dominator 1,034,088 933,386 1.107889
linkz0r 1,018,506 659,872 1.54349
Hejin 968,081 702,160 1.378719
Takhisis 968,053 664,505 1.456803
Redneck2 955,364 619,110 1.543125
Kronos 910,693 537,629 1.693906
Razor 896,839 540,377 1.659654
Street Fighter! 894,690 433,057 2.065987
Lovefer 821,875 438,485 1.874351
Trillian 817,907 418,466 1.954536
Volleyball Fanatic 797,273 604,395 1.319126
AVERAGE 1.510572

Tanks come in around 1.9 and mages around 1.5. But mages were a lot more "mediocre", while certain tanks really have inflated score/PR ratios. It's hard to find a consistent sample, and hard to know if some users are just better than others at finding targets. Anyway. I just wanted to start some trouble. *smile*

TheHatchetman February 2 2007 1:02 PM EST

"Diabolik 1,510,793 876,220 1.724216521 "

on the tank side... he's a mage now. Or was this his info before the switch?

QBsutekh137 February 2 2007 1:15 PM EST

Crap, I forgot it switched, just forgot... Judging by history, score was hovering around a 1.7 million average, with a slightly higher PR. So, if anything, the ratio as a tank used to be even higher (and that is what Johnnywas himself was saying on that other thread...). So, yeah, I screwed up, but if anything, it brought the tank average down by throwing that worthless mage in there. *grin*

Lochnivar February 2 2007 1:27 PM EST

I think it would probably be useful to compare Score, PR, MPR and NW

Strictly speaking I think the Score to MPR would more accurately reflect the difference between tanks and mages.

QBJohnnywas February 2 2007 1:29 PM EST

I was higher as a tank; thanks to that lovely WA, and the huge amounts of physical damage a pair of +10 Belegs and a 10 million NW ELB (all in the damage thanks to ToA PTH) could give me. An average of 700k - a million per strike, multiple strikes....meanwhile FB mage hits at highest about 600k once per round.

I'm going back to being a tank next NCB but you really cannot have an 'intelligent' discussion about tank vs mage without taking into consideration the invisible PR the WA covers.

QBsutekh137 February 2 2007 1:35 PM EST

Loch, you are making my point... Why would I figure in MPR and NW when I am only trying to see how score and total PR act? That's what rewards are based on: score and total PR. With my total displayed PR, if I can beat someone with a score 1.9 times that PR (the tank average above), I get better rewards than if I beat someone 1.5 times my PR (the mage ratio above). NW has nothing to do with it for the very reason I am posting this: the Weapon Allowance.

Anyway, how many different parameters do you really think can be compared before the analysis turns into anectodal hand-waving? How would you have me add NW and MPR to the above listing and have it be useful? Should I add in the tattoo type? Age of character? Gender of user?

QBsutekh137 February 2 2007 1:38 PM EST

OK, I did another listing here... Grabbed 11-30 ranked players, decided (my own opinion) what type of team they were (main offense), and got score PR ratios. The averages? Almost dead even. I left out the top ten because top ten folks don't care about inflated PR, so those ratios tend to end up being right around 1 (or less!). The hybrid teams seem to be doing quite well...

Again, this information is hard to draw a point from, I see why most stories about tank vs. mage end up being anecdotal. I wonder how Jonathan decided how to balance the Weapon Allowance in the first place?


11-20 ratio
Impulse - TANK - 2,326,222 / 1,800,989 1.291635873
Failure - TANK - 2,320,181 / 2,553,971 0.908460198
Dixie Cousins - MAGE - 2,211,405 / 2,815,826 0.785348598
Kaiser - MAGE - 2,210,015 / 2,257,526 0.978954395
The Alchemist - TANK - 2,195,319 / 2,276,489 0.964344216
Xanas - MAGE - 2,177,309 / 2,467,574 0.882368269
B Ark - TANK - 2,173,242 / 2,320,737 0.936444759
Queen Beee - MAGE - 2,165,225 / 2,032,651 1.044964645
Nemesis - BOTH - 2,181,975 / 2,088,085 1.044964645
Conundrum - TANK - 2,090,258 / 2,252,227 0.928084958

Ranfas - BOTH - 2,032,945 / 1,800,503 1.129098369
Ninja Pirate Monkeys - TANK - 2,032,519 / 1,649,419 1.232263603
heat - MAGE - 2,016,500 / 1,586,941 1.270683661
valenvail - TANK - 2,021,071 / 1,944,744 1.039247839
Tank Killer - BOTH - 2,009,779 / 1,504,073 1.336224372
Good Guy - MAGE - 1,991,133 / 1,215,693 1.637858407
Spirit of the Night - TANK - 2,005,219 / 1,659,251 1.208508538
Kiesova - TANK - 1,991,491 / 1,054,157 1.889178747
Spike Spiegel - MAGE - 1,986,710 / 1,527,520 1.300611449
Hatchetman - BOTH - 1,981,365 / 1,406,574 1.408646115

TANK AVERAGE (includes BOTH): 1.178238633
MAGE AVERAGE (includes BOTH): 1.165429357
BOTH AVERAGE: 1.229733375

Sacredpeanut February 3 2007 4:58 PM EST

I think Mikel's character King of Pain is the perfect example of why the WA might be a tad high. Granted he has a nice strategy and probably has "perfect" items in the sense that he probably uses all his WA and has all rare, named items, which most tanks probably wont have, but I'd love to see a mage character, no matter how good their strategy, get even close to Score/PR/MPR 1,336,358 / 333,992 / 257,381

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] February 3 2007 5:11 PM EST

Does anyone know if diabolik beats the same people he did as a tank and maybe more people? That is the info i would like to know about

QBJohnnywas February 3 2007 5:16 PM EST


I can answer that. I lost the whole top end of my fightlist switching from tank to mage. As a tank I was ToA, with only evasion trained apart from HP/ST/Dex. When I switched to mage it was only HP/FB. I had people on my fightlist of around 1.7 million. I went down to a top scoring opponent of about 1.3 million. Only when I started training evasion again did my score start to rise. With evasion I regained some of my old opponents, so that was obviously a hugely contributing factor to my original wins, rather than the damage. But on the whole, the loss of damage per battle did take me down quite a few pegs.

So simply from single tank to single FB mage, both focused on ranged, both evasive. But the single tank was a lot more successful....

Relic February 3 2007 5:51 PM EST

One major thing to note about the PR of some single tanks and/or mages is the size of their tattoo. The only real PR that is being added for my Queen Beee character is the tattoo. It is adding around 500k to my PR I believe.

Relic February 3 2007 5:55 PM EST

Correction, it is adding around 410k to my PR. The rest must be coming from my AG's, because my HoC is base.

AdminNightStrike February 5 2007 11:28 AM EST

"I think Mikel's character King of Pain is the perfect example of why the WA might be a tad high. Granted he has a nice strategy and probably has "perfect" items in the sense that he probably uses all his WA and has all rare, named items, which most tanks probably wont have,"

He's got +34284793478392 DBs. You have to understand how armor PR works -- it's very different than weapon PR. Armor PR is based on not just the enchantment level of the item, but on the MPR of the minion the armor is on. If you put $1,000,000,000 NW items on a 1 MPR char, the PR will still be 1. My NCB is growing so fast because I had +16 HGs from day one. Maybe people do likewise, and it pays off quite well. +16 HGs added something like 14 PR when I first put them on, but yet they allowed me to fight 10x my PR.

The bottom line is that all PR is not created equal.

QBsutekh137 February 5 2007 11:40 AM EST

Exactly. King of Pain's overall PR will get larger and larger because of that net worth. It just looks a bit strange now, wait till he is at 1 million MPR and you can compare him to other similarly-MPRed characters. I'm not sure what it will look like at that point, but it will definitely look different. *smile*

QBJohnnywas February 5 2007 6:54 PM EST

Good evening. Just thought I'd fill you in on my single minion. I just switched back today to tank. Retrained my 1.2 million FB across my HP/ST/Dex; rented 47 million NW worth of weapons, mostly on the bow, and chucked on a pair of +11 Tulks I had lying around. The bow is approx 2k on the X, with nearly 1.2 million ST. The average damage I'm getting is what I had before with an X1000 bow and +11 Belegs. Around 800k - a million per strike.

I can take everybody who was on my fightlist as a mage and I added another ten teams to the top of the fightlist. As a mage the top of my fightlist was 1.5 million in score with an average score level of about 1.2 million, now it's a team of nearly 1.9 million at the top with an average score level of 1.7 million. So my rewards are up too.

The 47 million NW of weapons is 4 million over my WA, which adds 40k to my PR.

So for essentially an extra 40k to my overall PR I can fight comfortably a lot higher, making a lot more money and XP, which means my char is growing faster too.
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