ToA or armor? (in General)

AN|M4L February 8 2007 3:18 PM EST

Eventually my plan will be a TEW or a TEEW team.

Im wondering, if i am going to put AoI on the tank (so i dont have to train evasion), should i use ToA or armor him up? Just wondering what everyones opinions are. I have heard using ROS on an E for AS, and using ToE on my wall, anyone else have suggestions or help for me?

QBJohnnywas February 8 2007 4:17 PM EST

It depends. RoS, ToE and ToA all have their plus points and negative points.

The best thing about a ToA on a tank is that you are effectively making a much larger, stronger and faster individual. You want your damage dealer to be as powerful as possible - in my opinion a wimpy tank is a waste of space.

And the other thing about a ToA is that it provides a bonus PTH - that's the + on your weapons if you didn't know. A ToA of about level 450k provides a bonus of about 45 PTH. Which ordinarily would cost you quite a bit of cash if you were boosting your weapons. This means you can invest cash into the damage or into other areas of your team. Infact the main reason for investing in the PTH of your weapon if you are equipping a ToA is to get ahead of your opponent's evasion.

I'm not a big fan of the RoS personally; but it does mean you can boost your damage dealer with enchantments like haste and giant strength and have them protected from DM. It is a powerful way to do things.

The ToE is good if you are going for a team that is going to last longer; Put it on an enchanter and then put lots of armour on your tank and wall. The aura from the tattoo will add to the damage reduction, helping your team last much longer. The downside is that ToE team tanks tend to be smaller or slower in comparison to ToA tanks.

There are examples of all three in the top ten characters; personally I'd recommend the ToA, it is a much easier way of doing things if you are just starting out mostly because it does some of the work for you by building some of your stats.

The other thing you have to consider first though is where your damage is going to be focused: ranged or melee. The ToA is a good all - rounder and will carry both; the other two tend to work best if you focus on melee.

Good luck and remember: have fun! ;)

AN|M4L February 8 2007 6:58 PM EST

awesome amount of information, thanks a lot! So you are suggesting to go more with the ToA. I like the idea with all of them, that is why it is so hard!

Since i may be doing just a TEW team to cut down in dispersing exp, i might not do ros, but it does sound nice... hard choice. But the benefits of ToA are greater than that of wearing an Elven Cloak, TSA, and BoM/ Mage Sheild?

Any other opinions on this. thanks again for the info!

Tyriel [123456789] February 8 2007 6:59 PM EST

ToA for sure, until you have a good amount of money. Unless you feel like renting, of course.

It would take big items to make up for the DX/ST/PTH lost from not wearing a ToA.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] February 8 2007 7:00 PM EST

I tried a TWEE team without a ToA and with all the str dex gears you can find.
Any other team will own you because you can't hit them because your tank is to weak, to compensate for the small tank use the ToA.

QBJohnnywas February 8 2007 7:08 PM EST

With the bonus gears you get boosts to your trained stats. But with the ToA you have the choice of spreading your XP into other areas, such as your HP, or evasion/bloodlust/archery; or to add an enchantment to your tank. You also get the bonus to PTH. It basically gives you more MPR. If money was no object the best way to build a team is to grow one minion on it's own as your damage dealer, adding others as you go along. But the bigger your single minion, the more expensive it becomes to add others. The ToA almost lets you do that from the start, with other minions.

Mr Chuckles wrote a strategy piece in the Help/Wiki called 'How It Should Be Done' (the other strat pieces are worth reading also); and in there he details this idea of the bigger damage dealing minion. If you haven't read it,then do so immediately!!

For an easier time building a tank team - and they're not the easiest thing to do well - the ToA takes some of the pain out of it. The other ways can be harder, but when they work can be more rewarding.

Personally I'm a little lazy so ToA every time! ;)

Feel free to ask questions anytime. :)

Duke February 9 2007 1:37 AM EST

TEW work better with a TOE but need a lot of fine tuning, experience and Money and lots of money under 100M NW you can forget its.

AN|M4L February 13 2007 9:39 PM EST

Id like to bring this back up to find ou what people think or what they have experienced with using ToA and Using something like TSA and everything else. Ive come down to:

lots of DEX and STR and extra PTH
Loss of armor

Armored up=
With elven gear i can raise my dex (just as high as toa, if higher???)
Other gear can raise strength (As high as toa if not higher too????)
Lots of AC
Reduction frmo DD spells
Regeneration of HP

what are everyone's thoughts?

My team will look something liek this:

T: Archery and Prot [20]
W: ?

muon [The Winds Of Fate] February 13 2007 9:51 PM EST


Well, the problem is that elven gear can indeed raise your dex up... but the dex gap can only provide a maximum of 2 hits in combat. PTH can (as far as we know) provide an infinite amount of hits - the formula is in the wiki thanks to NightStrike and Duke, and involves a total chance to hit that gets reduced by 100% after each strike in each round.

So, the ToA provides _cheap_ plus to hit - it is basically a money saver.

I would put bets on the fact that a ETW team (with AoI on the tank, ToE on the E and a mass of armor on the wall) would, in the long run, be more effective than a ToA tank given an infinite amount of money to spend (plus to hit on the tank's weapon ;-)

As for your strategy... as people have said before: read the wiki, look at the characters of the top 20 people, then _try your own strat_. Experimentation is the mother of good strats, not idle chatter in forums ;-)

Good luck,

Duke February 13 2007 9:52 PM EST

To have a working tank that is not using a TOA its need to be a BL tank without the extra PTH you will have a hard time to hit in range.Also archer gear does not give much AC so you wont be able to reach 200 AC + and BG and Hoc does not give dex/str like EG/HoE that you need to compete vs ToA tank.Last point archery use a 0.25 ratio vs a 0.20 leaving you more exp for dex.In overall rule if you are not a Toa tank and that you are losing the dex war you wont have much chance is your tank is the main damage dealer.

AN|M4L February 13 2007 9:53 PM EST

cant have a toe and toa on same team....

ive been reading, just wanted to get some opinions out there

winner winner February 14 2007 8:25 AM EST

You need either a gigantic ST or ST boosting gears to get more than a ToA and same for DX

QBsutekh137 February 14 2007 8:38 AM EST

I think the reason a ToA becomes less effective at the highest of high levels is because the NW of weapons is so great. That means damage and pth is already large, and the blows dealt are massive.

Critters and Koy both use ToE. Critters switched to ToA for a bit, and I was able to beat him before I even hired my fourth minion. But now, back to ToE, I can't beat Critters, and can't even get close to beating Koy.

I would be an example of at least one team that is probably going to beat you if you use an RoS. My combined DM has an effect of over 2.2 million, and I'm still growing it.

But, especially if you can get a wall over 400 AC, a ToE is soooo hard to beat. My damage is pathetic against Popsicle Man's tank/wall/leecher. I'm sure he has some dexterity issues against other more "pure" tanks, but he seems to be doing all right. *smile*

If I were to use a ToA, I would leverage what it has and make that tank an archer. Because with a ToA, you are going to die quicker, and more dexterity is your best friend. That means quick kills with blows sure to land. For more ToE information, ask jayuu and Popsicle Man, and for more ToA information, ask edyit...

AN|M4L February 15 2007 3:40 PM EST

Well i drew it out, using certain gear and gaining them all to an NW of 1m-2m (depending on items) and using a TSA i can get a st of 40% and using elven gear i can atleast get a dex + of 20% after penalties. that is close to the toa, but with them i can also use an MgS, TSA (YAY to health regen), extra armors and ac level. so that i why i am aksing for everyone's onpion. really liked the last post, very descriptive. Are you suggesting a ToE on my wall? any other suggestions or responses from personl use or attacking those with it?
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