Archery/Ranged continued. Some testing and numbers. (in General)

QBJohnnywas February 9 2007 1:17 PM EST

Ok, the last thread is full of 'stuff', lots of me waffling basically. So I thought I'd start another with some testing.

Not sure what this will show:

I've got a 13,599 level ToA (tiny). 433,963 dex. A +102 Elb. Fairly low level dex and negligible bonus to PTH from the ToA. I don't expect triples with this particular set up. Unlike the 900k level ToA I had previously.

I fought against (CB1) Slayer333's char Quetzacotl. A mage team where each minion has 20 dex and no DBs or evasion in play.

I fought 20 times.


Eleven times I hit for two strikes each round.

Five times I hit for a single strike in round 2.

Twice I hit for a single strike in round 3.

Twice I hit for single strikes in both rounds 2 and 3.

Once I hit for a single strike in round 1.


There were no misses in that set of battles.

Dunno if that gives the number heads anything to play with. But I'm glad to say that thanks to Nightstrike, Novice and GL I'm a little clearer on the whole thing. Thanks for letting me work out my problems in public! ;)

AdminNightStrike February 9 2007 4:53 PM EST

Take off the ToA and do another 20 fights. The ToA muddies the water.

QBJohnnywas February 10 2007 3:40 AM EST

5 / 5 / 1,010,853
3 / 3 / 1,009,098
6 / 6 / 1,098,509
6 / 6 / 1,062,604
6 / 6 / 985,817
6 / 6 / 1,113,334
5 / 5 / 1,088,514
5 / 5 / 1,075,954
6 / 6 / 1,062,180
6 / 6 / 1,148,200
5 / 5 / 1,025,170
6 / 6 / 1,186,096
5 / 5 / 1,174,756
5 / 5 / 1,102,452
6 / 6 / 1,082,970
6 / 6 / 1,065,649
6/ 6 / 1,134,356
5 / 5 / 1,105,698
5 / 5 / 1,171,824
6 / 6 / 1,234,361

20 battles without the ToA. Again no misses.

(Quetzacotl is a three minion mage team, each minion has 20 dex. There is no evasion or DBs involved. Where it is 6 shots fired and 6 hits, that is 2 hits on each minion. These were 2 round battles, thanks to the HoC)

AdminNightStrike February 10 2007 4:02 AM EST

The odd numbered hits imply a round had one hit. Which round is that? That changes things.

AdminNightStrike February 10 2007 4:04 AM EST

"20 battles without the ToA. Again no misses."

If you ever double hit against a minion in a given round, you will never miss that minion in that round. The real question is getting your double hits to be guaranteed. I think we can see that it isn't, which means that your PTH is below 29, which means novice may be right that archery only affects PTH. Further, that 10k ToA is adding at least +9 to PTH if with it you can't get a single hit in a round.

AN|M4L February 15 2007 8:24 PM EST

So what did this decide? Is archery worth training if you are going with a large ToA and a high (+50-100+) ELB? I read it many times, both posts, seeing more to the whole ditch Archery, but still wanna make sure. I am going to be going high ELB and BG's, am i watsing exp in archery???? Evasiona ebter choice?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] February 15 2007 8:41 PM EST

If you want to hit people training evasion, Archery is required. However if you're using a ToA and an ELB to clean up enchanters on PL based mage teams only, not expecting to hit other tanks, or flying walls, you'll be fine without it.

AN|M4L February 15 2007 8:42 PM EST

so going against walls and tanks, u have to use archery to hit them? is diabolik not able to hit tanks and walls?

AN|M4L February 15 2007 9:35 PM EST

anyone else have any iformation on this. did a small test of my own one a few people, using archery and not (but only using a Coumpound +15) so i know this test isnt much, considering a ELB+105 would obviously work a lto better, but Wiz was using a +16ELB so i thought i woud try.

after 10 fights with arch on someone with 20dex:
(hits in rounds)
422 seemed highly average :)
without Archery:
422,322,411, kinda bouncing a little bit, not much

now verses another toa tank:
with archery:
312 across board, except for one i got a 42 and killed him
without (x means missed)
3x1 with last match being 3xx

so does this show as archery would be required until i get an ELB with a massive + on it?

QBJohnnywas February 15 2007 9:36 PM EST

Oh I could hit tanks, high dex tanks at that: Shade's char Morgoth Bauglir was on my fightlist with a dex of twice mine. I could take him (two minions) out in three rounds. But it was all high damage single or at best double shots.

Big evasion chars were tricky, UC minions for instance I couldn't hit in ranged, but got them in melee.

AN|M4L February 15 2007 9:39 PM EST

so wiz are u saying i should only have archery until i get a high PTH ELB? then train into something else?
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