Strategy question for CB's Great Minds (in General)

There, now that I've lured you in with praise:

Given my dislike for overly NW intensive strategies I have formulated a plan. Unfortunately I can talk myself into believing my plans are brilliant far too easily. (I'm persuasive)

Comments and insight are always appreciated.

Basically I'm looking at a 2 minion setup based on my Character AngryFarm2

Minion 1
HP 1mil
Evasion
AMF
FB (over 1mil)
AG, TOE, DB/EB, HOC

Minion 2
HP
PL
TsA, SC, CML, EG(for the skill boost) and MgS

The basic idea being that the TOE and PL will keep my FB mage alive as long as possible. The PL minion will have to eat MM damage but the AMF/MgS/TOE/AC should keep that down considerably.
I'm considering a straight up wall without PL but FB, SoD w Exp shot, and seekers would leave me with stalemates.

Anyway, if I've overlooked an obvious flaw please let me know

Go EB over DB because f evasion. Your NW will have a greater synergy with you xp that way.

I assume you'll also get a AoI for the mage.

Since your going for longer battles, I suppose AMF over DM will do. But longer battles also runs counter to the FB Mage's basic strategy.

Actually I'm not looking at an AoI as it would largely remove the 9/10 benefit of the PL and the TsA regen on the PL minion.

My TOE is about 1.3 mil and should knock almost 200k of hits and the PL should shave another 200k so the idea is for my FB mage to take minor damage and have the HP for the team maximized.

True, I'm opposed to AoI being a must have item anyway.

That used to be exactly my strategy. It's a good one :)

Maybe I am just not up to speed on mage strats, but how are you mitigating friendly fire from FF in melee? Are you assuming that minion 2 will be dead by that point or are you just not too worried about friendly fire due to your defensive equipment?

In my mind, it looks like your strategy is meant to last past ranged, and maybe MM might be a better choice than FB?

Like I said, longer battles run counter to FB, but I assume he's relying on the ToE to cut his own damage.

I agree with Kultur that it looks like a gamble to use FB.

Then again, I'd never discourage a calculated risk. So as I assume you're aware of fireball's splash damage I'll also assume that you've weighed up the advantages/disadvantages (FB's ability to attack tanks/mages sooner than MM, stronger hits against single minions etc Vs splash damage).

However, I must also agree with Vestax, FB is designed to get a quick kill.
Excuse me while I prepare to duck the inevitable carp coming my way when I suggest the following: CoC.
It's better suited to this type of strategy. You may as well bring out the big guns if you're already lasting long enough to use it.

Minion 2 isn't likely to get past ranged by much so it isn't too much of a concern if he snuffs it on friendly 'fire'. That said, a MgS and ToE Aura should really help against splash back.

The goal is roughly to start melee with around 1mil HP on a big FB Mage (note: minion two, when he gets hired with start with about 30mil less exp... his life expectancy is going to tend towards the 'short' end of the spectrum)

/me frozen carps MrChuckles. (That's how I show my love, as I'm a big fan of CoC myself.)

I understand what you mean Lochnivar, and if you can manage to hit off a damage dealer in range, then you're taking less damage anyways. If you have your heart set on it, then I'm not going to discourage you one bit, so long as you already know the consequences.

doesn't CoC get absolutely pummelled by AMF? I seem to remember something along those lines happening.

As far as having my heart set on something, two points:
1) what heart?
2) I'm just presenting my reasoning... If I'm wrong, for the love of all that is good and pure please tell me.

Truth is this. The amount of damage you receive in AMF is proportional to the damage you deal. CoC deals more damage per use, so naturally it takes more damage from AMF per round.

You could view this as getting pounded more by AMF, but then again, your pounding just as hard back. And since CoC hits all opponents, its not like your going to waste a huge blast of CoC on a 20 hp Enchanter. Technically speaking, AMF shouldn't be any more harmful to CoC then to FB mages.

However, in practice this isn't always the case. The one thing that messes with this balance is the ToE. The ToE is the only item that reduces AMF backlash. The ToE reduces damage by a fixed amount per blow, with a cap at 75% of the damage taken. This means that the ToE is most effective at reducing damage when the damage comes in smaller amounts. That being said, a ToE mage benefits more from FB then CoC only because the AMF backlash comes in smaller doses.

On the flip side of the coin, if you fight an opponent using a ToE, CoC is more effective then FB because more of your damage is likely to get above the ToE's damage reduction.

Vestax,

The AMF backlash isn't proportional to the damage you inflict; AMF backlash is fixed depending on the percentage cast on you. The reason CoC takes more backlash is because AMF takes penalties in earlier rounds, so MM and FB get an advantage in ranged.

"The AMF backlash isn't proportional to the damage you inflict; AMF backlash is fixed depending on the percentage cast on you. The reason CoC takes more backlash is because AMF takes penalties in earlier rounds, so MM and FB get an advantage in ranged."

*shrug*
I'd have said the same as you Vestax (and have nearly done so a few times, but being too lazy to do the maths to back it up I kept my mouth shut).

Upon finally being enlightened as to how AMF backlash works, I'll have to say that FB *may* be a better option in this situation. Still, if you live long enough (and if you're running a defensive strategy, you really should) CoC is better.

Both are worth considering. The safe option is FB, you know what it'll do for you. CoC however is a bit of a gamble, either your strategy will fall apart or be hugely successful.

Btw, Vestax that last post of your's was very informative. I tend to ignore statistics (math nuts need to learn to speak English) and that filled me in on a couple of things I missed. Thank you.

Fanta, those penalties aren't penalties placed upon AMF, they are penalties placed on the spells that get casted on those rounds. Those spells take a ranged penalty and so do less damage. Less damage means less AMF. Like I said, it's proportional.
One thing that might confuse you is that it doesn't fluctuate with the randomness of damage. That is because AMF is based on potential damage. Only a few modifiers, like Range Penalties, are figured in while things like the random factor, AC, protection, and endurance are left out. It won't matter if you hit a high armored opponent or a naked one, you still take the same amount of backlash. This is why backlash is often used by the math heads for testing DD. Basically because it gives more consistent results.

By the way MrChuckles, glad I could help. (At least I think you said I was helpful?)

I'm not sure how useful this will be, but:
Given that you're worried about friendly fire from your FB, you could sacrifice your wall by putting an AoI on your mage and putting the ToE on him (thereby not being able to use the MgS thereby sacrificing it to MM damage as well as tanks). This will allow you to wear CoI as well as AG (giving another 12% ish FB). It will also give slightly greater longevity to your mage via MCM etc.

In short, you get a ten percent damage boost (at the very least) during as many rounds as you stay alive for. Then you could remove the exp you put into evasion/amf and plug it into FB or HP whatever your poison.

Depending on your PL expenditure, you might profit from untraining that and going pure HP.

Your downfall will be seekers, but then that's hardly a surprise.

Muon - I'm actually not concerned at all about the backlash since the PL minon is likely never going to see melee. The AoI is definitely a no go since I want to maximize the benefit from the TOE and PL so damage has to go through my Mage and into the PL.

That said, nobody has convinced my I'm nuts so the plan is to buy a MgS, buy a new minion, and kill people.

"Fanta, those penalties aren't penalties placed upon AMF, they are penalties placed on the spells that get casted on those rounds. Those spells take a ranged penalty and so do less damage. Less damage means less AMF. Like I said, it's proportional."

Read the wiki on AMF:

"This damage is fixed. During ranged rounds, it suffers the same 30%/20%/10% ranged round penalty that afflicts normal DD."

Well...so both AMF and DD take penalties. So I was right somewhat; during ranged rounds, MM and FB do get an advantage because AMF is lowered during range, as well as MM and FB.

But I see your logic now, so we were both kinda right, both kinda wrong, I think.

Let's just put it this way; AMF is confusing.