# Question: Ranged Weapons and Ammo Relationship (in General)

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*Draugluin*
March 6 2007 10:36 AM EST

Well, since Ranged weapon damage and PTH is based on both the weapon and the ammo, how does that work exactly?

For PTH, it seems likely to me that the PTH is added together, but what about the damage? Is it multiplied, or added? Or does it go through some deviously tricky formula? Multiplication would make sense, but that would make it impossibly overpowered, wouldn't it? I dunno. So I'm hoping someone could make this clear to me.

Thanks.

Weapon X (yes I said it), adds a fixed amount of damage per X

Ammo X increases overall damage by a single percentage point

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*Draugluin*
March 6 2007 10:46 AM EST

Ooh, thanks. However, what is the value? Of the absolute value increase of the weapon's X.

So if I understand you correctly, a Bolt [10x6] (+0) Would increase my damage by 16%

Or do you mean a Bolt [10x6](+0) would increase damage by 60%?

I think he means:

Bolt [10x6] (+0) increase damage by 6%.

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*Draugluin*
March 6 2007 11:01 AM EST

If that was the case, with multipliers being the only difference, then why do the different ammos have different base values? Surely there must be some sort of effect, no?

Bolt [10x1] would do 1% less damage than Bolt [10x2] is what he means.

The base damage is exactly that; the base damage. Much like weapons have a base damage.

"For PTH, it seems likely to me that the PTH is added together"

This is not entirely correct. ammo PTH is three times as effective as weapon PTH. So a bolt +6 will add 18% to your PTH, while a crossbow +6 will only add 6%.

How does the x on weapons work exactly then? is it a percentage? I always thought it like this. an Elven Longbow 6x1000 +20 added 6,000 damage and 20% plus to hit. I guess i was wrong...I'm so slow :/

You're right on the PTH part. As for damage, all you can really say is that relative increases are linear. Therefore:

[6xY] +20 = X damage

[6xNY] +20 = NX damage

or something to that effect. I think when Jon explained it, there was a third variable in there.

"if damage for weapon stats X and strength Y is N, then damage for 10X and 10Y is now 10N, for any X, Y, and N"

There ya go

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*Sacredpeanut*
March 7 2007 3:51 AM EST

"if damage for weapon stats X and strength Y is N, then damage for 10X and 10Y is now 10N, for any X, Y, and N"

Y in this equation is the strength of the minion using the weapon correct?

In which case it would be

Minion with X ST and weapon [6xY] +20 = X damage

Minion with NX ST and weapon [6xNY] +20 = NX damage

Meaning that simply equipping a weapon with twice the X on a minion won't double damage, you would have to double strength as well.

I haven't been required to do algebra in a while..If I continue to look at it it may make some sense to me...

/me scrunches forehead in concentration

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*Sacredpeanut*
March 7 2007 3:58 AM EST

Or should I say

Minion with X ST and weapon [6xY] +20 = N damage

Minion with ZX ST and weapon [6xZY] +20 = ZN damage

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*Sacredpeanut*
March 7 2007 4:01 AM EST

Basically double strength and the weapons X multiplier and you double damage is what Jon seems to be saying (assuming Y is strength of the minion using weapon X in his equation).

Correct. And nice use of the overloaded variable =) =)

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*Draugluin*
March 7 2007 6:20 AM EST

Wow. I *think* I understand, if both ST and weapon damage multiplier were increased by the same percentage, damage would likewise increase by the same percentage. Also, the PTH is added together, with ammo having a 300% increase in effect.

However, how important is the ST compared the multiplier on the weapon damage in reference ot the damage?

Also, it was not mentioned how the damages of the weapon and the ammo stack together?

Thanks a whole lot!

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*Sacredpeanut*
March 7 2007 6:34 AM EST

Draugluin, yes you are correct.

In my experience you get a similar damage increase from doubling your ST as you do from doubling your X so they are of similar importance.

Ammo X will increase your Ranged damage by about 1% per X, so if you have x10 ammo your damage will be near enough to 10% higher than x1 ammo.

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*Draugluin*
March 7 2007 6:44 AM EST

I see. But does the base damage of the ammo make a difference?

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*Sacredpeanut*
March 7 2007 6:48 AM EST

I would say so, but I don't know by how much they would increase it. You could try buying some x1 slayer arrows and see how much more damage they do than x1 regular arrows.

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*Draugluin*
March 7 2007 7:16 AM EST

I'm sorry to be a little slow, but returning to the subject of the weapon damage and ST... When you add in the additional % damage from the multiplier forged of the ammo, is that based on the final damage after applying all other factors? Or does it apply to the weapon dam

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*Sacredpeanut*
March 7 2007 7:23 AM EST

Final damage I believe - you should experience a 1% increase to damage you inflict in Ranged when you upgrade ammo by a point.

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