HoC and CoC (in General)


QBJohnnywas March 7 2007 4:24 AM EST

I thought I might expand on my comments in Nightstrike's HoC bug thread.

A CoC user equipped with a HoC will attack in ranged 2; that is the last round of ranged before melee.

However, if their opponent has no ranged attack that round becomes the first round of battle.

Anyone who thinks CoC is the weakest DD spell to use because of when it fires should reconsider. The most powerful DD spell in terms of damage is now capable of firing right at the start of a battle when up against teams that don't use ranged. The most powerful DD spell now has the chance to fire first depending on the circumstances.

Less like bringing a knife to a gunfight now... more like detonating a nuke in ranged.....

AdminNightStrike March 7 2007 4:27 AM EST

1) Thank you for starting a new thread.

2) After SP's comment in my other thread, I went looking for someone to fight that didn't have ranged so that I could verify if the empty ranged rounds are counted (SP is right, btw). What I found was that practically everyone uses ranged combat.

It's easy to make a great strat that will destroy a single team. The real challenge is to make a great strat that will work against a plethora of teams. Teams that don't fight in ranged do not constitute a plethora.

QBJohnnywas March 7 2007 4:34 AM EST

You are right there and I personally would like to run a team that is a good all rounder. But sometimes as you are climbing higher through the ranks, specialising can be a much better way of doing things where rewards are concerned. You only need a few opponents to improve your position.

Specialising can give you much bigger opponents to kill.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 7 2007 4:36 AM EST

Before this, there used to be Tank teams (or even CoC Mages) that only used Melee combat. For whatever reason. Not liking Bows, wanting to spend all thier WA on a single weapon, not wanting to take the first round hit on thier massive VB, whatever.

Now, Melee Tanks really need to use a Ranged weapon to compete. And that involves losing the first round of Melee.

Is there now too much of an emphasis on Ranged combat in CB?

Do we still need the first round of Melee weapon swapping penalty?

AdminNightStrike March 7 2007 5:28 AM EST

don't forget that mage teams are ranged teams, as well. That drops the percentage of melee-only teams significantly.

Flamey March 7 2007 5:44 AM EST

So, I suck because I don't use ranged, now?

Flamey March 7 2007 5:51 AM EST

"Do we still need the first round of Melee weapon swapping penalty?"


so you're saying, you want Ranged-based teams to be even stronger, allowing them to switch straight away gives them more damage if they make it past round 3.

QBJohnnywas March 7 2007 5:52 AM EST

Hey, a non ranged guy!!!


Anyhow, I just did a run with a low end CoC char. I like CoC higher up once HP gets big enough to withstand the AMF backlash.

But I will be the first to admit at low levels it isn't a good spell to use; you see very few wins, and if you do like I did and include a basic wall what you see is stalemate stalemate stalemate.

Or at least that's what I used to see. Now, there are considerably more wins than before; still some losses because of GA and AMF; still some stalemates. But the HoC evens the odds a lot.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 7 2007 6:17 AM EST

"So, I suck because I don't use ranged, now?"

Yes.

Do you win versus many Ranged based teams that *aren't* smaller than yourself?

"so you're saying, you want Ranged-based teams to be even stronger, allowing them to switch straight away gives them more damage if they make it past round 3."

Weapon swapping doesn't hurt *archers* as much as it does *Bloodlust* Tanks that need to use a ranged weapon to compete versus the 4 ranged rounds they would otherwise do nothing in.


QBJohnnywas March 7 2007 6:22 AM EST

Flamey does alright with regard to foes bigger than his team. However, to take GL's side here, Flamey does have an effective ranged attack - or rather a ranged defense - GA.

In a game that's becoming more of a ranged game (again) GA should start to be looked at as an enchantment that you need to look at if you are not going to join in the ranged game......

QBJohnnywas March 7 2007 6:24 AM EST

Sorry meant to say "Flamey does more than alright"..

;)

Duke March 7 2007 6:37 AM EST

Flamey does alright with regard to foes bigger than his team. However, to take GL's side here, Flamey does have an effective ranged attack - or rather a ranged defense - GA.

Reply:I suggest that you look at flamey history graph there a clear decrease in is score starting from september.

QBJohnnywas March 7 2007 6:57 AM EST

There's a decrease in score for a lot of people at that level; it's nothing to do with Flamey's set up.

You only need to look at my retired character The Clash; that score of 1.8 million was made back in September. Scores around dropped considerably a little while back; that 1.8 million put The Clash in the top 25 as a retired char for about a week.

Godpanda March 7 2007 8:06 AM EST

You all take away that 4th round tank penalty and you might as well kiss CoC goodbye. Secondly, I want to say that CoC still isn't that good. The option is there to fire one round sooner... but without increased AMF resistance or -something- it still doesn't help as much as I thought it would. I still LOVE the fact the option is there, I'm just personally disappointed with the small degree of help it lent my team.

Adminedyit March 7 2007 3:13 PM EST

No ranged weapons here either and I seem to be doing alright. The archer / mage teams that I lose to beat me regardless of using a ranged weapon or not.

horseguy001 [Battle Royale] March 7 2007 5:40 PM EST

I don't use any ranged weapons either, and when I was fighting with my tattoo I was able to break 2 mil score (although scores are a bit lower across the board now). I do use GA for defence, but I plan on scrapping that eventually and will have no source of damage in ranged combat. Plus, I don't really plan on sucking either :D

Flamey March 8 2007 1:44 AM EST

somebody refresh my memory what happened in September, was that big range change?

Also, to GL, I lose against most Archers, even when they're not even close MPR to me, Mikel was beating me at half my MPR.

miteke [Superheros] March 9 2007 9:54 AM EST

Ranged weapons got an absolutely enormous damage boost coupled with an extra round of fire courtesy of the HoC. Evasion was given a huge boost against ranged weapons. It soon became necessary to have a huge evasion minion to take the ranged weapon heat or your character was quickly toasted. But the HoC also granted a huge boon to FB and MM mages so you also needed to be more sensitive to magic damage. FB needed the boost, but MM quickly became the magic damage dealer of choice, as it was also the least affected by AMF.

Result: Tons of MM and ELB/SoD characters out there kicking butt, and a few characters with +big/xhuge ELB/SoD kicking around characters with twice their MPR. It's interesting to have a character on your fight list, suddenly start losing to them, and then noticing that they just rented some tactical nuclear weapon in the guise of an ELB or SoD.
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