Win 2 mil+ How? See inside (in Contests)

Sir Leon [Soup Ream] April 23 2007 9:10 PM EDT

This contest is simple, You think of an idea to help better the forging aspect of cb and I'll pay you if that idea gets put into the game by Jon.

How much?

i will reward 2 mil for the first Idea that gets put into effect plus an additional million every 2 months, from this post. IE, The starting pot is 2 mil. An additional million will be added to the pot on at this time on May 23.

If two or more ideas are put in simultaneously then the pot will be split respectively. In order to try to ensure this, rewards will not be given until a month after the first idea is put in effect.

Some Rules:
1. The idea must benefit forging more than fighting

2. No repeating previous ideas in past threads unless it was your idea or you give credit to the initial person who posted it.

3. If you are disrespectful to others repeatably then you will be disqualified.( Heated arguments are great but insults will not be tolerated. Try to stick to constructive criticism)

4. When debating ideas and constructing them, I ask that after several posts for you to please create a thread in general then place a link to it here.
The person with the initial post will receive the full reward and can then split it amongst those who helped him develop his idea--If he chooses.

Please post Ideas here, Do not CM me about them. Feel free to CM me with questions or suggestions about the contest. Keep in mind, I reserve the right to withhold rewards. I also reserve the right to make or change rules as the contest continues.

Good Luck! :-)

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] April 23 2007 9:16 PM EDT


Forging for experience

Whacky Forge Times

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] April 23 2007 9:18 PM EDT

other ideas i had summed up in another thread:

(Whacky forge times, increasing forge RPM per cycle for 6 hours, but nothing for the other 6 hour time period)

"Like MrC said, forgers dont make as much money as fighters do anyway, so there really does not need to be a downside to even it out.

But if you absolutely need to implement one, make it so permanent forge fees get raised to 17.5% instead of 15%. And that you have to be a part of an eco clan in order to get the wacky forge times. And the regular +60%, but to the forge RPM % increase."

"just have rapid RPM gains time for one six hour period (100% increase), and slow RPM gains for another six hour time period (50% decrease) or something similar. Dont do anything with money, cuz yes, that would be very easy to just goto ~99% and wait till cheap forge times. I also liked the exp times for forgers idea."

THE MAIN IDEA I LIKED: (Giving permanent exp gains per cycle)

"ok, i get the point that there has to be a rise and fall at one time for each whacky time, So what about this idea? Make a change that grants forgers a certain amount of exp per minion based on a percent of NW increase throughout the RPM (Ex. per cycle).

Time One -
Raise the RPM Gains 100% and lower the exp gains 50%

Time Two -
Raise the Exp gains 100% and lower the RPM gains 50% "

"ok, you would choose the RPM over exp during whacky times, but dont most fighters choose exp times as opposed to money times? Same type of thing going on, see?"

(VelvetPickle was talking about a forging tattoo here, which you could still forge without the tattoo, it would just be a slower process for you. Same with a lower level forging tattoo.)

"forging tattoo would obviously be level'ed through forging, lol. And make it so it only works "better" the higher your MPR. And VP, why would a fighter want to try and keep up with forgers by forging themselves? They fight, they dont forge, lol. Plus, do forgers buy a ToJ to keep up with fighters? Nah, its useless!"

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] April 23 2007 9:24 PM EDT

Thread where i summed all my ideas up:


Its also where i made links to my ideas, the summed up post was after i listed the links to the originals.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] April 23 2007 9:26 PM EDT

More of my ideas

Tyriel [123456789] April 23 2007 9:38 PM EDT

Give forgers a way to make up for experience lost that they could have made in fighting. Maybe not the same as fighter experience, but it's a possibility.

Forgers gain experience when they finish a cycle relative to the NW gain of that cycle. (While we're at it, increase the BA needed for 1 cycle of 'overpowered' things such as ELBs, and decrease it for 'underpowered' items, such as MC. Why not?)

This exp (whether new or old) could be used like any other experience. Perhaps give a special place to spend them, like a 'frequent users discount' on forging fees, small increases in RPM, and those kinds of things.

Perhaps even forget the forger experience thing, and just increase the benefits of high MPR, dedicated forgers by creating a skill that just benefits forging. Call it "Blacksmithing", and have it decrease the time needed to heat/cool certain items, rounded up to the nearest 10 seconds, based on its level vs. MPR of the character, with a bonus the higher in MPR the character is relative to the #1 spot. For example, a HoD currently has a 'sweet spot' of 22, 4:30 per cycle, according to the Wiki. A Blacksmithing skill of 0.2 (which would probably make a nice maximum) would reduce times by 20%, to 17:40, 3:40.

Now, I realize that would (probably) take more BA to complete a cycle, but I think it would add an interesting twist to forging, as different items would take different skill percentages to get to their 'sweet spot', and some items may even have new (or multiple) ones at different percents!

There's my two terrible ideas. o.o

muon [The Winds Of Fate] April 24 2007 1:33 AM EDT

A terrible idea, but here we go:

A forger gains experience at forging a particular item according to total NW in that item forged.

For example, I forge an Adam for NS, put say 1 mil NW into it. Over time, as I forge the Adam more and more, I become more proficient at forging it. The next Adam I forge, I am better at forging, also.

Say, keep a tally for each item for each character, with the total NW forged for each item. Then, they get some bonus to forge efficiency (say, one tenth of a percent for every million NW forged in that item).

What do you guys think? I hope this wasn't included in the thread linked above, since I didn't read it...

[RX3]Cotillion April 24 2007 1:53 AM EDT

That sounds like a good idea. I can see some flaws though. Why would I want to forge an AoAC when I have put tons of NW on say an ELB? I think forgers would stick to easy to forge itdms rather than harder stuff like big DBs or BGs.

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] April 24 2007 2:56 AM EDT

Here is an idea. Everyone hates botchecks. Especially forgers, since it throws off your tempo. Also, forgers always need money to keep on forging.

My idea: botcheck rewards! Answer right, get a small prize! Hooray, a botcheck! $200!!! It wouldn't be enough to unbalance anything since all players would share in this bonus (if active). Or have an accumulating reward, like 2, then 4, 6, 8, 10... etc up to 500 a botcheck right. Forgers would actually have a very small source of income for fees. Not much, but every bit helps!

Whatcha think?

DiabloSpawn April 24 2007 4:13 AM EDT

Well, although cbsmallpau had probably covered just about every idea that's been thought of, these were my original thoughts. Note that these ideas are focused on CB economy, rather than just forging. I feel that forging is only a part of the economy aspect of the game...changes will need to be made to several aspects to make economic clans a fun alternative to fighting. Anyway, the ideas:

"How about a hybrid clan? Part time forgers anonymous..."

"To make economic clans a viable alternative, its clear that mechanics of the game need to be adjusted. It would be most logical to have purely economic characters, which you could have in addition to your fighting characters, which would gain XP as well as money from forging".

"CB 'stock market' using key indiactors as 'shares'. Share prices could be dictated by rankings, weapon strengths etc etc. THAT would be awesome. It could be based on something like Lamuness' LER".

Xenko April 24 2007 12:47 PM EDT

Alright, I fear that I am about to right a giant tome on my opinions about forging and ideas to change it. So be prepared...

We first need to address what the actual problems with forging are. I believe the problems are:
1) Forgers are currently not earning rewards equivalent to fighters. Fighters get XP/Money/Tattoo XP. Forgers get money, and at the current rate, they are earning less money per BA spent than they would fighting (ie: at 650k MPR, forging I am earning ~$175 profit per BA (70% rate, and minus 15% forge fees if I was in economic clan), whereas fighting I can earn around ~$250 per BA, minus a few dollars for arrows (base) and healing. Clearly, equal rewards are not being earned.

2) Economic clans have no incentive to be a decent ranking. Whether you are 1st place or last place, there is no difference in the benefits earned. This seems to defeat the purpose of ranking economic clans.

One of the suggested solutions has been: Gaining EXP to Forge.
I used to be all for this idea, but I was thinking about it recently, and I now believe this is a bad idea that would unbalance forging. In the current system, a forger has two options: they can 1) fight to increase their ability to forge, or 2) forge to earn money but stagnate at their current ability. This system allows for lower level forgers to try and catch up to the higher level forgers, since as the higher level forgers forge and stay at the same ability, the lower level forgers can opt to fight and catch up with them. Thus there is always a dynamic between increasing your forging ability, and actually forging. If forgers earned XP from forging, it would be difficult to for lower level forgers to catch up. I guess this is in reality similar to the current issue with NCB/NUBs being able to catch the top fighters. If so, then forgers would need to go along a similar line, where they would get bonuses to allow them to catch up to the higher level forgers.

Here are my suggestions considering the points that I have raised previously. Please note that any % increase in forging ability refers to a NW gain, not RPM, as RPM is not a constant factor (varies based on NW of item being forged).

1) A Forging Tattoo
- Would provide a bonus to the NW gains in forging. For example: a tattoo at max. tat level would provide the maximum boost (e.g., 50%), whereas a lower level tattoo would provide a percentage of that (e.g., if your tattoo was 50% of max, you would only get a 25% boost).
- Would gain levels based on NW forged.
- Would not benefit fighting in any way. Would actually hinder fighting since they would be missing equipment slots.
- Could not be removed for 72 hours in order to dissuade "Weekend Forgers".

The 50% gain or whatever % is chosen should be sufficiently high to account for the fact that no XP is being earned, and thus forgers should be able to earn much more money than a fighter at equal level.

2) Top Economic Clans Get a Bonus to Forging
- Every clan would get a slight bonus (e.g. 1%) similar to how all standard clanners get a bonus for fighting other clanners.
- Also similar to standard clans, the top 25% of clans (I think it is) receive a bonus, with the top clan receiving a 15% bonus to forging, etc.
- Clan ranking should be modified as well. The current income ranking is fine; however, income should also include NW forged:
Score = Income + NW Forged.
In order to compensate for the fact the clans would earn income from being paid to forge as well as NW forged adding to the score, an adjusted formula should be:
Score = Income + 0.30 NW
so that forging is on par with other sources of income.
You could earn +100 to your score by getting $100 loan repayment
You could earn +100 to your score by increasing an items NW by $100:
70% Fee = $70 of income
30% of NW increase = $30
Score = $70 + $30 = 100

Those are my ideas. Suggestions are welcome. If someone else has suggested these ideas earlier, I apologize, and please link to the post where you suggested it so due credit can be given.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] April 24 2007 1:37 PM EDT

More ideas from others and I

stevebat April 24 2007 3:00 PM EDT

we should have a seperate number for forging experience i noticed that currently forging is tied to mpr no mpr no forging so we should make a number called fpr (forging power rating) which increases as you forge also econ clans should cover a little bit more than they do now like say percentage increase to what you get if someone transfers to you

Thanatos April 25 2007 10:28 AM EDT

I believe that adding two skills in the skill box would help.

Maybe Blacksmith for a person that likes to forge and fight.

Forger for a dedicated forger.

A forger would get defense bonuses as long as he did not go out and fight and if he did a penalty like using triple BA, and slow regeneration.

No transfer fees to others if they are working on someone else stuff. Not for stuff bought in the market and forged up.

A Blacksmith could go out and fight and not get a penalty, this would be offset by the fact that he did not have a trained fighting skill and only gain 1/2 the forging skills of true forger and would pay 1/2 transfer fees.

I would tie the the exp. in to the NW they produce.
But, would link it so they had to work on all types of items
to get the maximum benefits of the skills.

Unappreciated Misnomer April 25 2007 11:38 AM EDT

if fighting makes more money, then its simple, reduce the rewards from fighting, i for one forge alot, and from what i see exp makes little to no difference on the amount you forge after 1mil mpr. although i would vouche for either an econ clan bonus on forging or wacky rpm times along with the other wacky benefits.

another thing i would like to see on the forging screen is some numbers showing as i forge the nw value per rpm i generate, that way i can review and optimize formulas alot faster.

anyways i know im not really contributing as per the rules, but i hope the best for all of you in your efforts to make a change.

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] April 25 2007 4:47 PM EDT

Bringing Chappy back to Soup Ream!

wildw0lf [phantasycb] May 1 2007 10:25 PM EDT

i think you should...(before i say this i no it would be more money for people, but im gonna say it anyway) i think that to make it more realistic, you should have to buy a hammer or something so that you can pound the metals.

another idea is that you could buy things like iron or hides(in the whips case) to make your own weapons.

Unappreciated Misnomer May 2 2007 12:44 AM EDT

thats vanguard this is cb

Sir Leon [Soup Ream] May 6 2007 2:45 PM EDT

Due to lack of participation, contest is closed.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] May 6 2007 2:56 PM EDT

nooooo! =/

Xenko May 6 2007 2:57 PM EDT

The seems like a cop-out (no offense). There are plenty of great ideas in this thread. I'm not sure how you view this as a "lack" of participation.

Sir Leon [Soup Ream] May 6 2007 6:22 PM EDT

This isn't a "cop out." I agree there is alot of great ideas in this thread.

However, all well at least most of them have been mentioned before. They were not put into place then so i doubt they will now. I was hoping that people would be inspired to help those build on their ideas and get them put into the game. But i have not seen that happen at all.

Sir Leon [Soup Ream] May 6 2007 6:25 PM EDT

If we can see 3 new and well thought out ideas within a week of today. I'll keep open the contest.

However, if i do not then i will reward those who have participated a small reward as a thank you and re-think my approach to this contest in hopes of making a similar one.

Xenko May 6 2007 6:28 PM EDT

This contest was started at the end of April, with the next changemonth starting in June. You shouldn't have expected any changes to occur until June 01 at the earliest.

There also isn't much more the players can do to effect changes in the game mechanics other than make suggestions. It is up to Jon whether or not they are actually implemented.

Sir Leon [Soup Ream] May 6 2007 6:44 PM EDT

i understand that, but there isn't any flow of ideas or talking about it especially with this contest being rather new, imo. I'm not focused on changes happening but the amount of new suggestions people are making. I'm not wanting to close it because of jon not putting any changes in effect but because no one seems to really care about this contest.

Old suggestions are great but they have already been suggested and in most cases not put into effect before so why would the same suggestion be put into the game now? When i made rule 2 i was looking for it to be noted in the thread so others could read it and then gain some ideas of their own. While if something was put into the game that was previously mentioned benifit from this contest.

Xenko May 6 2007 6:56 PM EDT

Ah. I get what you were trying to say in your earlier post. I misunderstood the point you were trying to make.

In light of my enlightenment, I agree with you. I think the main problem is that many many ideas have already been bandied around in previous threads, and trying to come up with something completely original is getting difficult. All the ideas basically revolve around getting an item that gives a forging bonus, or having a clan or something give a forging bonus. I think that is pretty much the extent of what could occur. I guess what I'm trying to say is:

How do you improve forging WITHOUT an item/clan giving a bonus to forging??

Xenko May 6 2007 6:58 PM EDT

Oh, and Wacky Forging Time is the other main concept. I think that one has potential, but I can't remember any idea that was really balanced for Wacky Forging.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] May 6 2007 8:39 PM EDT

Kultur, Forging is already the downside to CB, so i dont think there needs to be something to balance it out, just one forging time, instead of two different time frames

stevebat May 9 2007 3:10 PM EDT

i think forging should be seperate from ba that is what i suggest

Xenko May 9 2007 4:54 PM EDT

Forging should not use separate BA. Since forging can be done for profit, it must use some BA. And if everyone had a separate "forging BA" then there would never be any work for forgers since everyone would just spend their own forging BA.

Redemption [Axis of Evil] May 11 2007 12:42 AM EDT

this may be completly stupid...but i always thought it would be cool to be able to create a character from the beginning that would have a slight edge in forging or fighting....if you choose a fighting character it would gain experience faster and possibly make more money for fighting...but the downside it would not have the forging efficiency as a char created for forging...this would create two seperate fields of charcters...and of course the forging char would grow slower from fighting but would forge faster....this would create more people with specialties....people who would choose to have fighting chars would pay others to forge than do it themselves...and people who had forge chars would make more money forging than fighting....

on economic clans they could create a time for better forging but only for people in economic clans not for everyone....this would make people choose between fighting or economic clans....

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] May 11 2007 7:51 PM EDT

Redemption, that idea is in one of my threads posted above, =P

Zaekyr May 12 2007 11:34 AM EDT

Sir Leon, I think there cannot be much done as far as a "fresh" completely new idea since any ideas have to come from within the style and constraints of the game.I think the biggest problem is with the balancing factor.i.e. Making sure forgers are getting a bonus that others would not.In that sense I think whacky forge times even when combined with limiting them to econ clans are not inducive to this at all.

I propose a combination of two other ideas.I am not sure of the original posters but I think combining the Tattoo and econ clans would be best.Simply have a "Rune of Forging" that only a member of an econ clan can have.Only members of an econ clan could reink a tat to a Rune of Forging.This rune would only gain levels from forging up to the max tattoo level.Forging efficiency bonus would be determined by the Rune level.I am not sure how the numbers would work since I am neither a member of an econ clan nor a dedicated forger but I imagine having a 1 % bonus per 50 k rune level would be somewhat close.Then on top of this you would have econ clan bonuses and member limits based on rune of forging levels/max tattoo levels.This would reward forgers well I think and help to stimulate economy clans and make a more dynamic CB economy overall.

Sir Leon [Soup Ream] May 24 2007 10:53 AM EDT

Lets not forget this...
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0025dA">Win 2 mil+ How? See inside</a>