EO based teams. (in General)

Lochnivar May 11 2007 10:08 PM EDT

A recent thread about EC got me to thinking about teams based around EC/AMF.

Specifically I was wondering about the following build:
Minion 1
Junction (1.00)
Base Decay
AMF (all remaining exp)
NS gloves (assuming they are real)

Minion 2
Pure EC

This would result in a fight order of
SF (invisible)
Minion 1 (invisible)
Minion 2

Now ideally the EC would nuke all but the biggest ToA tanks and the AMF would punish the Mages with fight order protecting the SF from opposing MM.

Would this arrangement provide sufficient EC to stop the tanks from laying waste to the team in a few short rounds?

Comments and insight are welcome.

Kong Ming May 11 2007 10:11 PM EDT

50% of experience into EC will translate to 25% reduction to both DEX and STR. Not enough to affect ToA tanks I believe.

Flamey May 11 2007 10:13 PM EDT

It'll affect them, it just wont nullify them.

Lochnivar May 11 2007 10:29 PM EDT

I've been contemplating turning my current team into that style build. It would have about 90% on EC, the AMF would be limited though.

Flamey May 11 2007 10:45 PM EDT

I'd love to see someone use that to see how effective it is.

Maybe the DB on the SF? seeing as the enchanter will have 20 HP, and Familiars don't have too much HP, so it'll help reduce hits if not take them away.

Flamey May 11 2007 10:47 PM EDT

Remember, just because it wont eat up the ToA tanks, it'll completely nullify UC Tanks and most likely damage normal non-ToA tanks.

It'll reduce the defensive DX of evasion, but that doesn't help in your case, since you're a mage.

Tyriel [123456789] May 11 2007 11:29 PM EDT

Mages would easily lay waste to you. You just don't have enough health on your team. If you want that AMF to be of any real use, you'll probably need to get some sort of AS. Anti-mage just doesn't work without HP, whereas anti-tank can work quite well with very little HP.

Even with 50% XP in EC, tanks would still be able to hit you unless you have fairly big DB's (although I assume you will, so this won't be too much of a problem). Any single hit with a half-decent weapon would kill Minion 2, and Minion 1 also only needs one hit to kill, so most teams with both a mage and a tank would be able to beat through. It may be hard to counter huge DX and PTH with just DBs, though.

Big health teams will be a problem for you, especially ones with GA, AMF, or both.

ToA tanks, or tanks with enough stat-boosting gear, wouldn't neutralized by your EC, either. Even the smallest amount of ST left intact will rip through your team. ToA tanks need something like 75%+ EC to neutralize at near MPRs on 4-minion teams. Don't quote me on that, though. I'd have to run some numbers, and I'm not much of a numbers guy. ;)

Mage-walls would, of course, be a huge problem for you, too. But that goes for any mage-based team.

I think I said before that EC is a spell that needs either a lot or a little; middle ground doesn't work so well. A little will stave off mini-tanks, heavy walls, and enchanters with weapons, while you need a lot to counter all other types of tanks (although a bit less for most UC teams because of AoF, but you need a lot more if you don't have very much PTH). Middle ground takes out...? Everything a little bit does, and nothing more, really. Taking a 150k ST tank down to 100k doesn't have nearly the same effect that 100k to 50k does, and is nowhere near what 0 ST does to a tank.

I think that's all I have to say. As I have said, I'm not much of a numbers guy. If you think you can make it work, go for it. Anything is viable (except maybe a single decay mage, or something outrageous like that. xD).

horseguy001 May 12 2007 12:00 AM EDT

Might as well go 4 minions and split your EC/AMF across multiple minions, which will get a bigger effect for the same amount of exp in addition to giving more kill slots.

Tyriel [123456789] May 12 2007 12:09 AM EDT

Multiple minions is actually more efficient in terms of EO's, because of the way they stack. Forgot to mention that. :P

So, yeah. You might as well go 4 minions, especially if you're not going to use AS, or use it very little.

And sorry if I was a little harsh or too critical in my last post. I just... have a lot to say, I guess.

TheHatchetman May 12 2007 1:30 AM EDT

Many train heavy DMs in order to entirely neutralize the EDs so many rely so heavily on, I would consider them EO-based teams :) But yea, its hard to split the line between AMF and EC, both are great in seperate amounts, but you wont have enough AMF for the single mages out there, and you wont have enough EC to neutralize all the tanks out there. Well, at least, never at the same time... I'm not saying its not useful to have both, but dont expect both to be the total devastation of opposition ;-)

Lochnivar May 12 2007 2:32 AM EDT

If I were to change my current team to and EC and AMF build it would have the following stats:

Minion 1
Junction (1.00)
EC (2,000,000)
Base Decay
Level 1.3mil SF

Minion 2
AMF (400,000)

Once I've got my MTL up above my tat level I might give this a try

Kong Ming May 12 2007 3:35 AM EDT

I agree on getting 4 minions. 1 holding the SF trains a little HP, junction, decay and AMF while the rest trains a little HP and EC. That way, your EC will be higher than 1 minion training it.

Adminedyit [Superheros] May 12 2007 8:23 AM EDT

sounds almost like my strat but with a tank instead of a familiar. your biggest problem from what i've seen from my fights will be DD teams. i've had to make a wall to slow down MM teams from hitting my tank, FB and the very rare CoC team will nuke your low HP E's very fast. despite a fairly large AMF mage teams still give me trouble.

BootyGod May 12 2007 1:17 PM EDT

/me smiles at edyit

I once saw a 4 minion team that was pretty much 100% EC. Was kinda cool too, but I can't find it anymore.

4 minions, each nothing but EC. Forgot the damage dealer though. Maybe a jiggy? That's what I would use, to get around GA and some magic...

QBOddBird May 12 2007 1:18 PM EDT

a 1 minion AMF/AS and then 3 minions almost pure EC with a HF on top would be nice...if the HF had PTH.

Tyriel [123456789] May 12 2007 1:34 PM EDT

"I once saw a 4 minion team that was pretty much 100% EC. Was kinda cool too, but I can't find it anymore."

That was the character Forge Hog. It was sold and re-trained, I think. :/

HF would probably actually work better than the JKF for a pure EC strategy. It does like 5x more damage, and gets 3 extra rounds, although it has a harder time hitting, and doesn't have built-in Endurance or Evasion. I guess it's kind of a toss-up, but the JKF just doesn't do enough damage for me.

BootyGod May 12 2007 2:07 PM EDT

In this strategy, the JKF has 25 rounds to kill, as you're trying to completely neutralize the tanks. As long as you're tank hunting, you should be fine.

QBOddBird May 12 2007 2:12 PM EDT

25 rounds if the opponent doesn't use ranged, which they likely will. So then it is reduced to 21 rounds if they have a HoC. The JKF needs a lot more than 21 rounds to kill any decently protected opponents, I can promise you that ;)

TheHatchetman May 12 2007 3:00 PM EDT

yea, novice had ForgeHog, and trained 3 minions with all EC, and had a tank up front. now the character is called 'Pop-Sickle'
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